Alright, it isn’t really me that’s on fire but I simply couldn’t start another blog post with “fire update”. That and nobody seemed to much care about my re-election announcement!…<grin>. The deadline for comments on the new fire and rescue ordinance has come and gone and we have comments from the Volunteer fire department (via their attorney), the firefighters union and the Rescue Squad.
The comments submitted reflect a diversity of opinions. There will be a meeting at some point to go over what all of this means. I don’t know when that will be but I thought that, on a matter of such import, I would update everyone.
November 25, 2009 at 11:26 am
I am so sick and tired of the crybaby volunteer fire department. Their only concern is their own history and to ensure they get theirs. Where were all the volunteers on the holidays that the fire house say empty. And don’t come on here and say it never sat empty because we all know the volunteer chief ran calls by himself at times. Kudos to the dedicated volunteers who continue to show up and perform, but I am sick and tired of hearing the management crying about the career staff and how they are being pushed out. And now you waste funds using an attorney to do your bidding. Volunteers, pick yourselves up, act like men not children and get with the program or move on. If you don’t like the proposed set up then go volunteer in the County. I hope the council doesn’t cave to a bunch of whiners and finally puts to rest all the bickering of which most is caused by the Volunteer FF.
November 25, 2009 at 2:06 pm
I don’t know that I agree with all that…I wouldn’t encourage our folks to volunteer elsewhere. Two reasons:
1. Manassas VFD has a long volunteer history and I’d hate to lose that. It’s a part of our history.
2. Pragmatic reason: if the volunteers depart, the levy will go up by 50% at least.
November 26, 2009 at 9:28 am
Andy, by now you have seen my short comments on the Draft, and (for anyone who reads this) I had no qualms with it. I simply suggested pulling in the one lonely paragraph over in Chapter 38 of our City’s Code.
Right up front, let me say I fully support both volunteer units, having been a volunteer fireman & EMT in years past. Alas, injuries received in my Army days prevent me from continuing in either capacity…so I serve my City in other volunteer capacities for Aging & Disability. In that service, I have a keen interest as this unfolds since those two units serve those residents in our City most at-risk in any emergency.
I too don’t quite agree with ManCityRes in total – although do agree with the main point. There are those in the Vol Fire leadership who have publically said they oppose any more career staff in their house. Shame of it is, over at the Rescue Squad, they have publically said they are in favor as the recruiting of volunteers is getting tougher. That is an issue the Vol Fire should be thinking on too.
Also, there is a PRIME opportunity to seek funding through the Feds under the “Staffing for Adequate Fire & Emergency Response (SAFER) Grant”. This will provide funding for BOTH increasing career staff AND recruiting of volunteers. The deadline to file is December 18th, but if the Vol Fire is not on board, then an opportunity is lost. My Council would be in error for letting this chance go by – even if we don’t get the grant, at least we apply! Even under our City Charter & current Code the Council should take action.
Our volunteers in both Fire & Rescue are outstanding citizens – I hope they keep in mind they are, and also see we in the streets want one unified system.
November 26, 2009 at 9:26 pm
I apologize if my post sounded as if I want the volunteers to go volunteer somewhere else because that couldn’t be farther from the truth. But the fact is, many of the current regime of volunteers forget their purpose. If they could operate and successfully run a fully staffed volunteer house, then I would support getting rid of the career staff at nights, but it is a fact they have misled the citizens of Manassas by making statements they have fully staffed the house in the past. That couldn’t be farther from the truth. In fact, the chief has had to run calls in the past in his buggy by himself. On a happier not, congratulations to all the Manassas volunteers who will graduate from the academy along with all the PW County graduates. The problem is times have changed and people just don’t have the same time as in the past and I do not fault them for that, I fault them for not realizing it and trying to hold onto the past and putting the citizens of Manassas at risk for their self serving purposes. You only have to look at the volunteer rescue squad and their statements to see the facts.
November 27, 2009 at 10:54 am
MCR, you make a good point – times have changed, and in these trying financial times, every element and entity serving this City must put aside past or tradition or whatever and pull together for the betterment of all.
I have seen in the last several months way too much of this turf or territorial stuff going on. Yes, in times of tight dollars people worry about their own departments; and whether you fully believe the Five-Year Forcast and support it, it still paints a future of rough seas for a couple more years, then a slow climb out without major influx of dollars or other changes.
We are ONE City who have enjoyed – versus other local or regional governments – services & leadership which are way above the bar. Heck, if everyone can rally around OHS Football, then why not do the same for the rest?
November 27, 2009 at 7:46 pm
I agree with the tone of your comment Raymond, BUT I will say the biggest problem both volunteer fire AND rescue have had in this City is exactly a lack of your conclusion, to rally around. We have what, maybe 100 active volunteers TOTAL. Out of a community of 40,000+. That’s hardly a community rallying. Yeah, it takes a lot to do the job as a volunteer (I know, I’m in year 30 of volunteering now), and yeah this problem isn’t unique to our City. But fewer than 100 can find it in themselves to help their community? And the percentage of those 100 or so that actually are not of our City I think skews it even worse.
November 27, 2009 at 8:45 pm
Not only the fact of only a hundred volunteers, but many of the volunteers at the fire house don’t live in the City. A lot of gratitude to them. Again, management hiring an attorney to “protect their tradition” is a bunch of BS. Get along with the career staff, of which I am not one I can assure everyone, and allow the Career Chief do what the City hired him to do, run the department. If the City is not going to allow the career chief to do his job, then why keep him around. We are paying him a nice salary, allow him to earn it and run the department including the volunteer side when it comes to operations. I would be willing to bet if Council would do what we elect them to do, make important decisions, and finally give full operational control of the department to the career chief, alot of the issues between the working career staff and the fine volunteers would disappear.
November 27, 2009 at 11:27 pm
I have to wonder why the City continues with the fiction of a separate department. With mutual aid the Manassas department is already a part of the overall PWC system. Yet the City insists on duplicating staff, leadership and equipment. City residents must enjoy paying extra in taxes for no or minimally better service. The same can be sad for Manassas Park too.
November 28, 2009 at 7:54 pm
PWCinsider, you obviously have no clue about fire department response. Why would PW County take on the responsibilty of providing fire and EMS safety to the cities? In the first place Manassas City is not meeting national standards with 1 fire house. Without doing the research even another station at the airport would probably not bring them up to national standards, which the volunteers have fought for some unknown reason. I am sure the manassas residents would love to have the citizens of PW County pay for their Fire and Rescue/department. You obviously didn’t think about your comment before hitting the send button. I for one do not want to trust my safety to a jurisdiction I have no control over. At leaset now I can make my opinion known and hopefully the City Council will listen. I doubt the PWC BOCS would listen to my opinion if they were running the City’s department.
November 29, 2009 at 8:50 am
Mr. Harrover let me start by saying as a citizen of this city I am appalled at how long this process has taken. Now don’t get me wrong, I expected it would take a bit of time to do this right but six months has gone by, little or no progress has been made, and the pot is boiling over. I have followed this process closely from the very beginning. I’ve attended public meetings, read the articles and listened to all the input from the ad hoc committee. In my opinion, public safety is the prime responsibility of any government. So, speaking as a citizen of the City of Manassas I’m offering my view of the situation. First of all, it seems clear that if we are to have an effectively functioning and economically efficient, Fire and Rescue system protecting us 24/7/365 we’re going to need both paid staff and volunteers working together as components of a common enterprise. Such a system will require one budget, one set of rules and most importantly one vision. All parties must work together for the greater good on behalf of the citizens of the City not on behalf of any individual or entity. I want the history and traditions of both volunteer organizations to live on but, those histories and traditions must not supersede the interests of our citizens. Those citizens have donated monies, and paid taxes with the understanding their hard earned dollars are going to protect the city and its people. I’ve come to know Chief Wood and I’m certain we have chosen the right man for the job. He truly cares for our citizens and our city. He has made a tremendous amount of progress in moving our City forward. I only worry that his good work is being overshadowed by all the distractions of the political battle and inter-organizational rivalry that has fomented over these last many months. This nonsense must stop. It’s time we drove a stake in the ground and moved the Fire and Rescue Department and the entire City forward. If any of the council members are reading this please remember you were elected to make decisions in the best interest of the city and you have, in my opinion, already made some tough but good decisions. I can remember reading a comment of Mr. Harrover it went something like this, “when you’re up to your neck in details always look back and ask yourself this: what was the problem you were trying to solve when this mess started? Let that answer guide you”. Change is a part of our history; hopefully changes move us forward and makes things work better. Avoiding change in order to preserve the past and “the way we’ve always done it” is unacceptable in 21st century Manassas. Mr. Harrover I commend the work of the ad hoc committee, the draft ordinance shows the time and effort put into it, it may not be looked upon as perfect solution by all but, we have heard all the arguments on this issue and it must move forward for the greater good of the City of Manassas.
November 29, 2009 at 10:39 am
I agree with some of this and am irritated by some of it but it’s all good input. Let me just add the following 3 things:
It is true that the process has taken a long time but remember that the volunteers are just that – volunteers! They have to make time in the rest of their schedule to attend these meetings so we have to be sensitive to that which has added some (but not much!) time to the process. The meetings also have to fit in an otherwise full Council schedule.
Due consideration must be given to all parties. Remember that the foundation of this discussion, public safety, is a given. The only variable here is cost to the citizens. Those of you advocating that we proceed, despite the consequences, should bear in mind that the levy would double if the volunteers departed. I suspect I would hear about it if the levy doubled.
Somewhere above it was noted that some large number of the volunteers aren’t City residents. That’s true and many of the volunteers are career staff elsewhere. The stories about the fire department that I fondly recall from my childhood are just that: 30 year old stories. No longer do local businessmen run down the street to the station when the fire horn goes off. Hell, there isn’t a fire horn anymore. Public expectations are that such that the fire fighters have to be in the station in order to reduce response time. It would be for the best if more citizens volunteered but that isn’t the trend in more urban areas.
In any event, the next is for the Mayor to call a meeting, my guess is that it will be a work session some time in December.
November 29, 2009 at 12:28 pm
My point is that the Manassas Fire and Rescue depoartments are already part and parcel of the county wide Fire and Rescue operation. They have common dispatching and mutual aid. Yet the City continues to operate in a silo with a duplication of staff, leadership and equipment. Case in point, Manassas has a tower truck. So does Manassas Park. Does that make sense? To me it would be better to treat this as a shared service like the Jail or Library. The Manassas Fire Company would then be one of the group of Fire Companys, not this set of divas who expect the world to revolve around them.
November 29, 2009 at 5:10 pm
PWCinsider, I tried to be nice earlier but you really are an idiot. You still haven’t explained why PW County would want to even think about taking on such a responsibility. Now I could be wrong, but unless something has changed recently, the Citys do not share dispatching. Sharing jails and libraries is complely different than sharing Fire and Rescue. have you ever been a part of a fire company? Why would you say the Manassas Fire Company is a bunch of Divas? I bet you wouldn’t be saying that if they were called in as the second due truck company responsible for search and rescue for a fire at your residence. While I may disagree with the volunteers stance on this issue, they are volunteering their time. Why don’t you find a blog in PW County to post your opinions on instead of making such stupid suggestions on this one. It actually does make sense for the tower trucks in the Citys. In Fire and Rescue you hope for the best but plan for the worse. Both Citys have planned for the worse, congratulations to both. Your suggestion is why professionals should be running the fire departments and not some citizen advisory board made up of people who have no clue.
November 30, 2009 at 1:06 pm
FYI:
According to the Comparative Report of Local Government
Revenues and Expenditures (Year Ending June 30,2008)
issued by the Commonwealth of Virginia Auditor of
Public Accounts: Fire and Rescue Per Capita Cost.
Manassas City – $96
PWC – $181
Fairfax City – $419
Manassas Park – $136*
(*This number is from June 30, 2007. MP failed
to provide the needed data to be included in the
2008 report – as required by state regulations.)
November 30, 2009 at 1:29 pm
Change of subject, but there will be a meeting this evening
at 5:30 in the 2nd floor conference room on a request for
increased funding from our local community college,
due in large part to rapidly increasing enrollment
and state funding cuts. As always, citizens are invited
to join us at City Hall. (An added attraction, understand
Vice-Mayor Harrover will chair the meeting!)
Germane article on front page of today’s WaPo, “The best
and brightest take a detour, recession-wary honor students
are using community college”.
December 1, 2009 at 1:34 pm
Steve, since your brought this up: of the $1.9 million NOVA says they need to secure additional funds of $67.65 million through 2016, how much is requested from the City? Also, if they get the $1.9M, is the $67.65M guaranteed or is it subject to state biennium budget requests? When does the City have to pay out its share? Thanks.
December 1, 2009 at 3:11 pm
ManCityRes:
Easy dude! No need to call someone an idot. Why don’t you look at it as an opportunity to teach someone. Would you want a teacher in the classroom calling a child an idot if they didn’t know something? Alright already.
—————
I had COMPLETELY forgotten about the “Fire levy”…until I saw my mothers tax bill (As some how I didn’t get mine I sure hope my mortgage company did)…and had already given the MANASSAS CITY VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENT a check! Guess what, THAT won’t happen again…just like I NO LONGER donate to the rescue squad because THEY charge for transportation!
I don’t know at what point the IRS will not allow us to write off those checks IF the MVFD no longer is considered a “VOLUNTEER” organization. I also don’t know at WHAT POINT it would NO LONGER be considered a “Volunteer” organization for tax purposes. Any Tax folks out there who can answer that question?
There are folks who live in the City and volunteer in the County that don’t pay City personal property tax. Maybe we should reconsider that or ASK PWC to pay the City for those individuals?
We are losing revenue here as well…ONCE AGAIN…all these “little” dollars can add up, kind of like a piggy bank that I drop change in EVERY DAY. At the end of the year, I have a nice sum of money!
Also, MAYBE if the general population KNEW all of the “perks” from Volunteering, they would! Just like, not having to pay personal property tax on the vehicle that is used to transport you to the Fire Station or Rescue Squad.
I heard through the grapevine (because I don’t know if this is fact or fiction) but I understand if you volunteer in the county (I don’t know if the city does this or not) that at some point you get a “small” retirement from PWC for your service…don’t get me wrong you have to have something like 20 years or more of service and it IS a VERY SMALL retirement, but none the less it might pay their personal property tax when they DO retire! Can I get a “snopes” check on this one, cause I’d really like to know all of the perks that do exist for volunteering!?!?!?
December 1, 2009 at 3:52 pm
WSGFN you are 100% correct and I shouldknow better then to let a PW County resident get to me like that. Volunteer firefighters, and others, have a system called LOSAP (Length of Service Award Program). You can google it and get the particulars and the City is a part of the program. While I am not a tax expert I would assume any money given to either volunteer rescue of fire would still be tax deductible because they have maintained their statusand charters. Again, I am not a tax expert but I would think this would be the case.
PWCinsider, I apologize but you should really rethink, as I should, before you hit send. Your idea is filled with potential problems and issues. You should also be aware in Virginia, unlike any other state in the US, Cities are 100% seprate from the counties and any action as you suggest would have to be agreed by BOTH parties and again, why would PW County take on sush a task. Also, even if they did, if it costs the City 1 million dollars to run the FD, then it would cost the County 1million to run the FD. Where is that money coming from? It is coming from the City which is coming from the tax payers. No savings to us.
December 1, 2009 at 4:38 pm
ManCityRes. Thanks for teaching me about LOSAP! Upon my google search IT GAVE ME EXACTLY WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR…THE PERKS!
Below is what OWLVFD offers, I’m not certain that ALL VFD offer ALL of these or not…but it’s a start to see what would benefit a volunteer.
You receive the following benefits as a member of the OWLVFD: (Occoquan, Woodbridge, Lorton Volunteer Fire Department)
1. Length of Service Awards Program (LOSAP). The LOSAP program ‘awards’ the long serving member of the Department with a financial reward. The program pays you a monthly stipend at age 60 based on the number of years you are an active member. You have to be an active member for 5 years in order to ‘vest’ 50% of the payment. At 10 years of service, you are 100% vested in the program. You will receive $10 per month for each year you are active member. For example, if you are an active member for 20 years, you will receive $200 per month at age 60.
2. Training. All of your training is free. We do not charge you for classes to obtain or maintain certifications. The majority of all available classes in the Fire and Rescue service can be obtained in the county. We do sponsor members to conferences and other education programs outside of the county.
3. Uniforms. We provide you all of your uniforms and Personal Protective Equipment (PPE). This equipment can cost in excess of $2,000 dollars. We expect you to take very good care of it. It will protect you if you protect it.
4. Personal Property Tax. If the title is in your name, you can choose one vehicle to be tax-free in Prince William County, Manassas City of Manassas Park. You will also receive a free county sticker if you live in Prince William County.
5. Worker’s Compensation. If you are injured or become ill while on duty, our workmen’s compensation protects you from lost wages if you lose time from your job.
6. Live-in program. If you are eligible, you can live in the existing dorm rooms of the station and save the cost of rent or a mortgage.
7. Pride, Comaraderie, Respect, Service to the Community. You can’t put a price on the sense of belonging to one of the finest volunteer fire and rescue services in the United States. You will never forget the satisfaction you experienced responding to a need for service. Regardless if you are firefighter, emergency medical technician, boat operator, battalion chief, ambulance driver, or call the bingo numbers, you will touch the lives of those in the community that depend on you to be the best trained and equipped member possible.
8. Job skills. Many of our members use the skills obtained and honed as a member of the Department at their jobs. Many of our members accept career positions in other jurisdictions and continue to protect their neighbors in Woodbridge. Most of us never tire of the commitment.
December 1, 2009 at 4:55 pm
Dave,
The presentation last night was titled
“Update from Northern Virginia Community College’s
Manassas Campus to the Manassas City Council”
and focused on the accomplishments and
direction of NoVa and how they impact Manassas citizens.
On the financial side, they did note:
– “Over the next six fiscal years, we will need to ramp up the
local capital commitment to keep pace with student growth
and state capital commitments.”
– “With only a quarter per capita increase in the local current
capital commitment, we begin action to avoid a $14M gap
in regional capital commitments now projected for
June 30,2016. This proposal for a gradual adjustment negates
the need for a large increase in any given fiscal year.”
– “Note that NoVa has not requested an increase in local capital
support in over a decade.”
– “Every $1 in local funds brings in $29 in general funds from
the Commonwealth.”
This will be considered in our larger budget discussions
in the weeks ahead. We certainly need to stay aware
of actions in Richmond as well as PWC and MP on this
matter.
Thank you for your interest.
December 1, 2009 at 7:11 pm
My point is thaty both Manassas and Manassas Park forfeit any economies of scale in their fire departments. Their departments which are in reality a part of a much larger system. There is no coordination of leadership, staff or equipment; yet PWC runs calls into both cities who run calls into the county. If Manassas residents pay X for fire services I think it stands to reason that with a fully integrated system they would pay something less than X and still receive quality services.
As for being an idiot, you’ll get nowhere by talking like my husband.
SEND!
December 1, 2009 at 8:25 pm
PWCinsider, I deserve that one and it was nice, you sound a lot like my wife, very smart in the brains but refuse to listen to your man 😉 (Joke). Your theory holds weight, but the bottom line is PWC would never take on the responsibility. I truly hope there are no hard feelings, I truly apologize.
December 2, 2009 at 10:18 am
So last night I had a little more time to look at ALL of the local Fire & Rescue sites about volunteering. Manssas City rescue spoke to NOTHING of ANY benefits, so I don’t know IF they have any. They didn’t even speak to free training, almost as if, well you have to get it on your own!
Manassas City fire spoke briefly to the benefits…almost as if they didn’t want you to know about them.
The City of Manassas needs to work on their rescue and fire department informational sites MARKETING what they have to offer!
Unfortunately we have brought up the “ME” generation…what’s in it for me?!?!?! IF we SHOW them what’s in it for “THEM” we might get more volunteers!
I believe Manassas City Fire and Rescue have done a poor job on their websites trying to make VOLUNTEERING a WONDERFUL JOB!!!!!!!
Being in a position where I’m constantly looking for employees in a “TOUGH MARKET” I know the importance of MARKETING and putting out there what MAKES ME the best employer!!!!!!!
December 2, 2009 at 10:45 am
Hey WSGFN:
We are talking about the *volunteer* fire department. You’ve done a lot of research and seem to know something about it so why don’t you call up the VFD and volunteer to help them on their website?
December 14, 2009 at 11:04 am
MM,
I would love to…HOWEVER, I am not a web developer and I can only offer suggestions. With all the “chatter” on here about the MCVFD, I’m certain they’ve read my suggestion.
December 15, 2009 at 3:15 pm
Any web developer that wants to help them with their site is welcome to email webmaster at GMVRS dot org. Correct, they don’t have a bona fide “web developer” on the volunteer staff and money to hire one isn’t available.
From my BlackBerry Storm…