Interesting debate on Afghanistan the past few weeks. I’m aware that nobody has been able to accomplish much in Afghanistan but I would urge all of the muckity-mucks to kindly remember a great piece of advice once offered to me: when you’re up to your neck in details always look back and ask yourself this: what was the problem you were trying to solve when this mess started? Let that answer guide you.
October 8, 2009 at 9:30 pm
A noble goal Andy, but unfortunately what I see happening is “politics as usual”, not “win”. The parallels to the failures in Southeast Asia are unsettling and the consequences for our nation will be as long lasting.
The lessons of the past are lost, its all about what plays best on CNN or Huffington Post.
October 9, 2009 at 10:52 am
Merely friendly debate,
Do you really think we are not trying to win? What greater political benefit could Bush have had or Obama have now other than to win?
I well remember as you probably do too that we had more than 400,000 personnel in Southeast Asia. We bombed the crap out of that country with countless B52s, etc., and not just for a year or two. I’m not sure what else we could have done notwithstanding the common wisdom that our goal was not to win or that we didn’t do “enough.”.
To be sure, I’m not debating the merits of any of these armed conflicts, but I am debating suggestions that we haven’t really tried to win then or to win now.
It is true that we could always do more, but how much more and at what exponential –not just incremental — additional cost?
October 9, 2009 at 12:21 pm
Perhaps I should have been a little more forthright: Our goal in entering Afghanistan was to begin the process of eliminating Al Qaeda or at least putting them in a box. We haven’t done that and the current debate worries me: I hear many suggesting that it’s time to simply high-tail it out of there. That isn’t a serious suggestion.
The current situation is materially different than where we found ourselves in Vietnam. Al Qaeda has proven again and again that they aren’t going away and, given a safe haven, have the ability to reach into America to devistating effect. I’m sure that some believed the Communists in Viet might have done the same but it seems clear what the outcome was going to be if we left. Their army was going to get crushed and that was that. Russia and her satellites (sp) were going to be fine regardless of what happened in that wretched corner of the universe – they already had safe haven. Same is going to happen in Afghanistan but the Taliban will take over and we will, lo these many years, be back in the same place – Al Qaeda will have a safe haven and we will up our game to actually strip-searching everyone who gets onto an airplane.
So, in considering our course of action, we need to consider why we were there in the first place. That is all…:)
October 9, 2009 at 8:22 pm
Andy,
We also went to defeat the Taliban, which allowed Al Qaeda to set up shop there. Libs are always going on about human rights and in particular women rights. The taliban kill and or grossly injure women and girls who want to attend school and have a life outside of the home. While that is obviously not the most important issue to stay in the war, it should matter.
But, you are right, if we pack up and leave now, it will just get worse. We should have learned in Vietnam to let the military run the war, not Congress or the President.
I’d also like to point out for the last eight years, the libs said this was the real war, and now that Iraq is going half way good, the libs are turning their back on this war.
October 10, 2009 at 4:05 pm
Citizen-
On this much we can agree.
October 11, 2009 at 8:46 am
Mark,
My father was a Marine and did two tours of Vietnam, which greatly shaped my views on war and those that do not support our troops. I simply have no respect for people who claim to support our military but then enage in actions and activities that do otherwise.
I’m glad the anti-war protesters have also been marginalized this time around as well, again I think that is a directly tied to Vietnam. The protesters of that era were clearly anti-American and were openly rooting for our failure not just in the war, but as a Nation. I’m sure that had a direct impact on the low numbers this time time around.
Also, as much as I dislike her, Cindy Sheehan has admitted recently, after not being able to attract many supporters to protest obama when he was on vacation, that it seems she was supported while Bush was President only because of politics. Disgusting to say the least.
October 16, 2009 at 6:10 pm
There is some pretty interesting information on BVBL regarding some dealings of our fine upstanding Council member Mark Wolfe.
Andy and or Mark or any other City Council member, care to come over to either my blog or BVBL to comment?
It seems the City was scammed into supporting a personal play ground for Mark and his snob elitist liberals.
October 19, 2009 at 7:28 pm
It seems the County is looking into funding for the arts and if there are any abuses. Andy, do you have an opinion on this? I find it very telling that Mark has not addressed any of this. I think the Council needs to address funding for the arts the same way the County is.
October 19, 2009 at 9:10 pm
Why do you feel that way?
I went over to the other website and there are some folks who are unhappy but nobody is suggesting that anything illegal has happened. In fact, several blogggers clarify that they are not suggesting illegal behavior. The point was also made that everything has been laid out in public documents. So what is there to look into?
October 20, 2009 at 6:38 am
Rich,
You might want to go back and read again. There could be a huge waste of public funds that could have been used in other areas. Now, you might think wasting money is fine. But to most, if there appears to be waste, they want an investigation.
Mark at least should come post in his defense. otherwise, it appears he’s ducking the issue.
October 20, 2009 at 8:01 am
CoM…My thought is that expecting a politician to come “post in his defense” on that site (or yours, or this) to such an accusation is naïve at best.
October 20, 2009 at 9:54 am
David,
That might be so. But, I know that Andy, Steve and other members of the Council have posted on local blogs to defend votes, and, or positions they have taken. Also, Mark has posted on the blogs too, so it’s not as if he does not know what is going on.
October 20, 2009 at 1:11 pm
The City grant process is very different than that of PWC. The Council accepts applications from different groups during the budget process. As a part of that process, the Council decides who gets the grants.
There is no grant panel or third party who decides these things. I’m not that familiar with how PWC does it.
October 20, 2009 at 5:18 pm
Andy,
But, the bottom line as I look at it, is the City still provides money, regardless of the decision process. Of course coming directly from the Council might cut down on any inappropriateness, but there still is a risk the money will be misused.
BTW, I read in the most recent power bill newsletter, there will be no car sticker this year. Thanks.
October 23, 2009 at 10:35 am
COM,
Does that mean you did not pay your taxes on time? If you read it in the utilites news letter and not from City Hall when you paid your bill. (sorry couldn’t help myself)
Anyway…didn’t we go into Afghanistan back in the early 90’s to get Russia out of there???? Who was the President then???..DOIGHT! But people pretended not to hear of ALL the PLACES that Clinton sent our troops and how many died in “unknown” conflicts.
You might find that “rumor” has it, that era of presidency also sent certain parties in there to get Russia out…and now THAT is OUR enemy!
Moral of the story…Never give someone else a job to do that you should do yourself!
October 23, 2009 at 11:15 am
WSGFN,
We get the newsletter along with the power bill that is mailed to us every month. We mailed in our car property tax bill and payment separately.
I know after the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan in 1978/79( I can’t recall the exact year) we sent military supplies to the Country so they could be used to fight the Soviets. I’m sure we also had a few military “advisor’s” too. But, I’m not aware of doing that in the early 1990’s. I’m pretty sure, people are fully aware of the many places Clinton sent troops, the main place being Bosnia.
October 23, 2009 at 12:35 pm
Wasn’t “Charlie Wilson’s War” about the buildup in Afghanistan? That was an entertaining flick….
October 23, 2009 at 4:42 pm
It was Andy, as was Rambo III! 😉
October 24, 2009 at 9:33 am
a cinematic tour de force!