One of the proposals put forward by the Education Forward committee is the requirement that students wear uniforms to school. People are all over the place on this idea. I think, if done as part of a real push to enforce codes of conduct (focus on the basics!) it’ll help.
What do ya’ll think?
February 5, 2012 at 10:20 am
I like the idea of school uniforms. My daughter wears them to her school and it takes the emphasis off clothing (brands, who is wearing what, etc) and puts the emphasis on other, more important school issues.
February 5, 2012 at 11:46 am
I would favor them, if the school system did not have to pay for them, which I realize is the case if they are made mandatory.
February 5, 2012 at 11:56 am
I think each school should have various size uniforms on hand for those that violate dress code. Once you show up at school dress inappropriately, you change into uniform and that’s what you’re required to wear the rest of the year. Consequences people. Tired of holding the mass responsible for the actions of a few (yes, I’m talking about taking away recess too)
February 5, 2012 at 12:10 pm
I’ve asked the city attorney about that and he can’t find a requirement that the district has to pay. He did say that state funds can’t be used for uniforms but that was it. Maybe I’ll ask the superintendent for details about her understanding.
February 5, 2012 at 12:11 pm
I like the idea if uniforms as long as it is very simple – polo shirts and jeans or khakis. Our family supported the voluntary school uniforms at Weems when my 25-year-old was there. I recall it fell apart mid-year due to lack of participation. She left OHS in her freshman year and ended up at Wakefield in the Plains with mandatory uniforms, but they were very expensive and so was the tuition. The smaller class sizes were worth it for her, though.
February 5, 2012 at 12:56 pm
§ 22.1-79.2. Uniforms in public schools; Board of Education guidelines.
A. The Board of Education shall develop model guidelines for local school boards to utilize when establishing requirements for pupils to wear uniforms. In developing these guidelines, the Board shall consider (i) ways to promote parental and community involvement, (ii) relevant state and federal constitutional concerns, such as freedom of religion and freedom of speech, and (iii) the ability of pupils to purchase such clothing.
B. Upon approval by the Board of the model guidelines, local school boards may establish requirements, consistent with the Board’s guidelines, for the students enrolled in any of their schools to wear uniforms while in attendance at such school during the regular school day. No state funds may be used for the purchase of school uniforms.
February 5, 2012 at 12:57 pm
Uniforms are a mixed bag….could ultimately save families money (khakis and polos), make dress code easier to enforce (although it totally boggles my mind why it is so difficult to enforce now), eliminate some of the bullying (“you are wearing the wrong clothes” kind). I wouldn’t be opposed to them but I think mandating them is an issue when it comes to the “free and appropriate” definition..maybe that is where the requirement for the district to pay for them. Additionally, I would like to see the teachers also wear them….nice school logo embroidered polos would look great!
February 5, 2012 at 12:58 pm
VA Board of Education Guidelines on Uniforms:
http://www.doe.virginia.gov/boe/guidance/administration_governance/model_guidelines_uniforms.pdf
February 5, 2012 at 1:12 pm
That policy only discusses the ability of indigents to procure uniforms…..
February 5, 2012 at 1:15 pm
Cost: As noted in the law, State funds cannot be used. The Guidelines on Page 4 address costs and procurement – and as you will read, this is all local dollars either via the school system or parent pay.
We also, like Cindy, were in the Weems Experiment years ago. I as I recall, it was sweatshirts, t-shirts and pullover shirts available with recommendations on the jeans and slacks. There were even optional windbreakers available. Even several of the teachers participated by buying and wearing various clothing with the logo.
One thing about a uniform policy and reduce expenses: have an exchange locker available. Kids grow fast. I know the Catholic School I attended in the 60s had such a locker where still serviceable shirts/blouses/skirts/slacks could be placed and trades made. Fortunately, several Mothers volunteered to manage the locker to ensure the clothes were clean and did not need repair. Of course with the skirts, there were always the times of hem readjustment.
But on uniforms in general: As an Army NCO, had them issued as a Private and then a uniform allowance after that. As a NCO, had to enforce the uniform standard every day to my young charges. A uniform policy is fine, however, without the ENFORCED discipline, it is useless….and I still had to haul young charges before the Company Commander for Summary Court Martial action for violation. If MCPS moves to uniforms, better consider making sure the policy is ENFORCED.
February 5, 2012 at 1:18 pm
@AndyH…true, they are guidelines established as directed by State Law. A better starting point then running off with local interpretations. Local reading creates a fine mess that then leads to having dig oneself out of. I compliment your asking Martin for interpretations – one way to stay on track.
February 5, 2012 at 1:43 pm
Asking Martin is a good start, but I hope you don’t leave it at that. Second opinions are always prudent especially when it comes to interpretation. If anyone is serious about SB policies and enforcement, best to check with state and get responses in writing.
February 5, 2012 at 2:31 pm
Do Uniforms Make Schools Better?
Yes and no, say the experts. The heated debate over school uniforms shows no signs of cooling off.
By Marian Wilde , GreatSchools Staff
For the past decade, schools, parents and students have clashed over the issue of regulating student attire. In 2007, cases involving an anti-Bush T-shirt in Vermont, an anti-gay T-shirt in San Diego and Tigger socks in Napa, California, made their way through the courts, causing many to wonder whether this debate will ever be resolved.
Meanwhile, researchers are divided over how much of an impact – if any – dress policies have upon student learning. A 2004 book makes the case that uniforms do not improve school safety or academic discipline. A 2005 study, on the other hand, indicates that in some Ohio high schools uniforms may have improved graduation and attendance rates, although no improvements were observed in academic performance.
Why Do Some Public Schools Have Uniforms?
In the 1980s, public schools were often compared unfavorably to Catholic schools. Noting the perceived benefit that uniforms conferred upon Catholic schools, some public schools decided to adopt a school uniform policy.
President Clinton provided momentum to the school uniform movement when he said in his 1996 State of the Union speech, “If it means teenagers will stop killing each other over designer jackets, then our public schools should be able to require their students to wear school uniforms.”
The Pros and Cons of School Uniforms
According to proponents, school uniforms:
•Help prevent gangs from forming on campus
•Encourage discipline
•Help students resist peer pressure to buy trendy clothes
•Help identify intruders in the school
•Diminish economic and social barriers between students
•Increase a sense of belonging and school pride
•Improve attendance
Opponents contend that school uniforms:
•Violate a student’s right to freedom of expression
•Are simply a Band-Aid on the issue of school violence
•Make students a target for bullies from other schools
•Are a financial burden for poor families
•Are an unfair additional expense for parents who pay taxes for a free public education
•Are difficult to enforce in public schools
Uniforms vs. Dress Codes
Schools and districts vary widely in how closely they adhere to the concept of uniformity.
What’s a dress code?
Generally, dress codes are much less restrictive than uniform policies. Sometimes, however, dress codes are nearly as strict, as in the case of a middle school in Napa, California. This particular school’s dress code required students to wear solid colors and banned images or logos on clothes. When a student was sent to detention for wearing socks adorned with the image of Winnie-the-Pooh’s friend Tigger, the girl’s family sued the school district for violating her freedom of speech. In August of 2007, the district announced it would relax its dress code – for the time being – to allow images and fabrics other than solid colors. The district superintendent, while admitting that banning images on clothes raises concerns about the restriction of political and religious speech, announced his intention to move soon toward implementing uniforms in the district.
Uniforms are certainly easier for administrators to enforce than dress codes. Consider two recent examples of students challenging dress codes through the courts.
In June of 2007, the United States Supreme Court upheld a lower court’s decision affirming a Vermont student’s right to wear a T-shirt depicting President Bush surrounded by drug and alcohol images. The school had suspended the student, not for the anti-Bush political statement, but for violating a dress code that prohibits drug and alcohol images. The courts, however, disagreed with the school and found that, because the images referred to Bush’s alleged past use of cocaine and alcohol, they were protected as free political expression.
In March of 2007, the Supreme Court “vacated” or set aside the decision of a lower court upholding a San Diego high school’s suspension of a student for wearing an anti-gay T-shirt. The school argued that the T-shirt was hateful and inflammatory. The Supreme Court’s action essentially struck down the school’s argument and upheld the student’s right to free speech.
In both of these cases, the schools’ attempts to protect students from drug and alcohol images or hateful speech were reversed in favor of free speech. To clarify the matter somewhat, the Supreme Court ruled in June of 2007 in favor of a school in Alaska that had suspended a student for displaying a banner reading “Bong Hits 4 Jesus.” The court ruled that the reference to drugs in this case had no political message and could indeed be seen as advocating drug use.
Check with your school to see what the dress code is, as they can be fairly specific. In Tulsa, Oklahoma, for example, the dress code prohibits:
•Decorations (including tattoos) that are symbols, mottoes, words or acronyms that convey crude, vulgar, profane, violent, gang-related, sexually explicit or suggestive messages
•Large or baggy clothes (this prohibition can be used to keep students from excessive “sagging”)
•Holes in clothes
•Scarves, curlers, bandanas or sweatbands inside of school buildings (exceptions are made for religious attire)
•Visible undergarments
•Strapless garments
•Bare midriffs, immodestly low-cut necklines or bare backs
•Tights, leggings, bike shorts, swim suits or pajamas as outerwear
•Visible piercings, except in the ear
•Dog collars, tongue rings and studs, wallet chains, large hair picks, or chains that connect one part of the body to another
What’s a uniform?
One school might require white button-down shirts and ties for boys, pleated skirts for girls and blazers adorned with the school logo for all. Another school may simply require that all shirts have collars.
In Toledo, Ohio, elementary school students have a limited palette of colors that they can wear: white, light blue, dark blue or yellow on the top half and dark blue, navy, khaki or tan on the bottom half.
Toledo girls are allowed a fairly wide range of dress items, however: blouses, polo shirts with collars, turtlenecks, skirts, jumpers, slacks, and knee-length shorts and skirts. Boys have almost as many choices: dress shirts, turtlenecks, polo or button-down shirts, pants or knee-length shorts.
When Toledo students reach junior high, they are treated to one more color choice: maroon.
What Research Says About School Uniforms
Virginia Draa, assistant professor at Youngstown State University, reviewed attendance, graduation and proficiency pass rates at 64 public high schools in Ohio. Her final analysis surprised her: “I really went into this thinking uniforms don’t make a difference, but I came away seeing that they do. At least at these schools, they do. I was absolutely floored.”
Draa’s study concluded that those schools with uniform policies improved in attendance, graduation and suspension rates. She was unable to connect uniforms with academic improvement because of such complicating factors as changing instructional methods and curriculum.
University of Missouri assistant professor, David Brunsma reached a different conclusion. In his 2004 book, The School Uniform Movement and What It Tells Us About American Education: A Symbolic Crusade, Brunsma reviewed past studies on the effect of uniforms on academic performance. He also conducted his own analysis of two enormous databases, the 1988 National Educational Longitudinal Study and the 1998 Early Childhood Longitudinal Study. Brunsma concluded that there is no positive correlation between uniforms and school safety or academic achievement.
Meanwhile, the movement toward uniforms in public schools has spread to about a quarter of all elementary schools. Experts say that the number of middle and high schools with uniforms is about half the number of elementary schools. If uniforms are intended to curb school violence and improve academics, why are they not more prevalent in middle and high schools, where these goals are just as important as in elementary schools? Because, says Brunsma, “It’s desperately much more difficult to implement uniforms in high schools, and even middle schools, for student resistance is much, much higher. In fact, most of the litigation resulting from uniforms has been located at levels of K-12 that are higher than elementary schools. Of course, this uniform debate is also one regarding whether children have rights, too!”
It’s a Big Issue
A new trend is the mounting pressure to establish dress codes for teachers. Apparently the same casual mind-set toward revealing outfits is cropping up in the ranks of our teachers.
The debate over uniforms in public schools encompasses many larger issues than simply what children should wear to school. It touches on issues of school improvement, freedom of expression and the “culture wars.” It’s no wonder the debate rages on.
February 5, 2012 at 2:41 pm
The main question of the post is whether mandating uniforms is a good idea. Most of the posts have focused on how to implement a uniform policy rather than on whether such a policy makes a difference. It seems to me that mandating uniforms is a sort of an around-the-edges approach. Not sure what it accomplishes. I fear that relatively easy proposals like uniforms give the impression of doing something without really accomplishing anything, at the risk of derailing maybe more effective but more challenging solutions. However, if there is solid literature/studies showing that uniforms make a material difference, then it should be considered as part of a package of solutions. No doubt some studies will conclude that uniforms are irrelvant or even detrimental. But if a solid majority of studies indicate it works, then I say go for it. So let’s spend a little time and see what the relevant literature says. (Off to Google…)
February 5, 2012 at 2:47 pm
FYI:
http://www.publicschoolreview.com/articles/16
February 5, 2012 at 3:00 pm
After fifteen minutes of an “in depth” (not) Google search, I’m not seeing what I would consider a compelling case but maybe you all will draw difference conclusions. The following links contain similar or the same observations brought to out attention by Steve and Michele:
http://theparentsite.com/parenting/schooluniforms.asp
http://www.educationworld.com/a_admin/admin/admin130.shtml
http://www.greatschools.org/find-a-school/defining-your-ideal/121-school-uniforms.gs
http://www.middleweb.com/INCASEUniforms.html
February 5, 2012 at 3:13 pm
http://www2.ed.gov/updates/uniforms.html
Apparently Richmond and Norfolk have had “pilot programs”
since the mid-1990’s but have not expanded them system wide.
February 5, 2012 at 3:19 pm
The BOE guidelines that Ray linked to are old but quite good. It’s pretty much a model of how to make it happen….
February 5, 2012 at 5:14 pm
@Rich,
The first thing we should look at is the COST to tax payers “IF” the tax payers are going to foot the bill. We shouldn’t kid ourselves into thinking that two pairs of pants and 2-3 shirts will be enough for each child. Clothes get torn, outgrown, damaged or lost/taken. I agree a uniform exchange is a good idea but it will take a couple of years for a decent “gently worn” stockpile to accumulate.
February 5, 2012 at 5:33 pm
I’ve now spend another two hours researching on Google. I’m reminded that driving for several hours doesn’t necessary get one any further down the road if one is driving in a circle. OK, ha-ha, but what does that mean?
First, I’m surprised at the lack of clear studies. Second, a lot of articles cite the same prior articles, suggesting that little new has been learned on the subject. Third…
Well, here’s what I’ve come away with: Noone suggests that uniforms hurt discipline and academic performance. Many suggest that it helps, although they recognize that other variables may have come into play. So, although the case still appears to be less than “compelling,” uniforms seem more likely to have a positive effect than a neutral or negative effect. Are we willing to do this absent “compelling” evidence? Or maybe that’s the wrong standard. Are uniforms merely “worth trying?”
For the time being, I’m good with keeping uniforms among ideas to be considered. No reason why it should be removed from the table.
February 5, 2012 at 8:46 pm
Rich, thanks for scouting the terrain of many studies….I ran through the quick list of what Steve posted from US Dept of Education and noticed one thing – although uniforms did have a contribution, there were several who said it “may have contributed”. The issue I see with even the various other links is no indication of what other measures the school districts put in place.
February 6, 2012 at 11:12 am
FYI: Town Hall Meeting at Baldwin tonight at 7.
Primary focus will be on the Baldwin area, but everyone is
invited to attend.
February 6, 2012 at 3:32 pm
I would think that if anything a “uniform” policy would keep students all in the same socioeconomic status. We all look alike, therefore, we all must be a like. Giving those students who might come from a “lower class” to not feel that way.
A wise teacher once said, Dress for the job you want, not the job you have. How does this matter? A student might want the best job, but his/her peer pressure keeps him/her from dressing the part. The uniform helps with the peer pressure of gangs, clicks and such, in my opinion.
February 6, 2012 at 5:16 pm
@WSGFN
Let me quote a rebuttal to that notion from one of Rich’s kinks from a person that presents herself as a teacher in a district with uniforms: “The argument about setting students on an even, socioeconomic level by having them dress the same does not ring true. Although, all students may wear khakis, some wear Tommy Hilfiger khakis that cost twice as much as JC Penney and the like, etc. You can still distinquish the haves from the have-nots even if its less obvious.”
Furthermore, there would still be “haves” and “have-nots” even with uniforms since aside from the excellent rebuttal above, the “haves” would be the students that have the nicer cars, cell phones, ipods, jewelery, etc… Yes, I know the school rules say they’re not supposed to have all that technology in school (or at they did when I was there) but they’ll have that stuff anyway. I doubt that theory uniforms could do anything to lessen social-economical differences for those reasons.
@Rich
I draw a different conclusion from your links and the others’ links. I found while studies in one district or state showed uniforms improved things, it often went unsaid what other variables were at play as Dad pointed out as well. However, in national studies, and/or studies that controlled for other variables, it was found uniforms make no difference. I also noticed that most things that favored uniforms were anecdotal evidence but that’s true also of some arguments against uniforms like what I quoted above with in way makes all the anecdotal evidence equal in value I guess. But it seems to me that the “hard” evidence comes out against uniforms. From what I read, uniforms seem more likely to have little or no effect by themselves and any effect noticed was when they were combined with other things which makes it impossible to really tell if uniforms had any real effects.
I also must disagree with you on no one saying uniforms hurt performance. I found in the links where the attitude of teens were discussed, they were not thrilled about uniforms to say the least and suggested it would hurt their performance. A reference link in the link Steve Randolph posted (post beginning with “FYI” just above your links) from the ACLU described a student potent in one jurisdiction and how the policy was causing unnecessary up-rest and suspensions.
@Doug Brown
I know you didn’t here but I wanted to say I agree with the comment you made on your blog when linking to Andy’s post. I can’t see teens being thrilled with the idea of going from no uniforms to uniforms, kids might see it as much of a big deal but they might not have developed the belief that have the right to wear whatever they want as part of their perceived freedom of expression yet. (There’s a reason many of court cases about dress in schools come from high schools not elementary schools.) There might have be a backlash like I wrote in my response to Rich about. Like you, I say enforce the dress code. I don’t think it’s worth the effort to enforce uniforms. There’s a quote I found from the same teacher who disputed the notion of social-economic equality that speaks to this point: “As a member of the faculty, you are constantly policing students about adhering to the school uniform policy whether it be a belt, an untucked shirt, or whatever. This can wear you down after a few months. The students know how to play that little game (didn’t we, too) and many push the limits daily. ” I don’t think it’s worth the possible stain on teachers if what she wrote is true. Enforce the rules already on the books, which allow enough freedom to avoid the issues discussed above like untucked shorts, instead of wasting the effort to make sure everyone’s uniform is perfect!
@AndyH
Aside from what I’d said in response to others, I’m not in favor of taxpayer money being spent on these things. I don’t think the government should pay for the students’ clothing. That’s something parents should pay for like when my parents had to buy gym uniforms for me and my sister. Besides, suppose the economy turns bad again and the City has to cut things? How do think people would react to the news that the City has to cut a police officer but is keeping the cost of school uniforms? Not very well I would think…
I would advise you to take the advise of the same person I’ve quoted twice already: “Precede with caution. Involve your stakeholders (parents) in the final decisions on implementing a dress code. Spend a year ‘talking it up…'” who went on to say that one should put a spin on the matter which I wouldn’t do. Listen to the community, especially the students, and see how they feel! It’s easy to debate it were but none of us here are the ones who would have to wear them…
@ No one in particular
I’m against uniforms but I must admits from everything I’ve read there’s no real way to predict one way or the other. However, I dispute many of the agreements in favor of uniforms as I just read. The other thing I want to say is on the issue of gangs, uniforms may be the solution some think they are. Gangs will still exist even with uniforms. My dad can tell you about the gangs in the Army who wore pens in a certain way and did other things to still show they were a gang even while wearing the Army uniform.
Finally, I’d say just do what AndyH suggests with enforcing the code of conduct in general and leave out the uniforms or make the uniforms merely optional or “suggested.” I think that’s the best compromise since the City wouldn’t be buying the uniforms in that case, students who want a uniform could were one and those who don’t don’t have to worry about it, and the same thing with students goes with the parents: those who want ’em can get ’em and those who don’t don’t have to get them.
February 6, 2012 at 5:48 pm
My kids will wear uniforms if that becomes the school policy. If it is not policy, they will continue to adhere to the present dress code.
There seems to be many published views on the pros and cons. I don’t need them to tell me whether I like the idea or not. If such a policy is enacted, it will please some and not others, that’s a fact. However, at some point the school board will decide on such a policy change if they feel there is support for it.
Isn’t that really the long and short of it right there?
My hope is that it will be but one option on a list presented to the citizenry (sooner rather than later) in a public forum meant to decide on the direction of the schools. My vote would be in support of uniforms.
February 6, 2012 at 8:33 pm
According to his campaign website, Jerry Carman supports uniforms. He also supports year round attendance. First, congrats to Jerry for taking specific positions enabling citizens to vote on the basis of specific information. Second, two core questions for Jerry: (1) Which studies have convinced Jerry that uniforms are the answer or is it just a gut reaction? Or is Jerry not convinced but merely believes that uniforms simply should be given a chance? (2) As to year round school, similar question regarding studies. Also, any sense of the direct cost? Are there also indirect costs if people are then attracted to Manassas because the City would essentially be providing year-round baby siting (albeit with schooling)?
Jerry, feel free to jump in if you wish. If you do you will be the only Council candidate willing to chat with interested citizens on this particular thread regarding uniforms. And so as not to just ask Jerry thereby putting him on the spot, other Council candidates are likewise free to express their relevant views on the subject of this thread.
[And, by the way, kudos to school board candidates Lori and Ellen who have been admirably vocal on a variety of school issues on ABTF. ]
February 7, 2012 at 1:19 am
Uniforms: I think that we can see by this thread that this is a conversation that could go on and on. I’m happy to hear others point out my similar thoughts (accessories create obvious disparity).
The bottom line for me is not just enforcing that uniforms would be worn but the FIT of the uniforms. That would be the challenge and it would be constant and difficult to enforce, not to mention subjective. What I think is a proper fit, others may not agree with (Baggy pants for boys, tight shirts for girls, etc.).
Until I see all teachers and staff, uniformly across the board, wearing properly fitted uniforms I will not support this. After all, they are supposed the role models, leading by example.
I have also heard people falling into a false sense of security with regard to gangs. If someone wants to get into our schools, they’ll find a way. Uniforms are easy enough to come by if someone wants to infiltrate and blend in.
For now, it sounds like uniforms are an easy, feel good distraction for the adults.
February 7, 2012 at 8:43 am
If you compel people to wear specific clothes, you are going to have to pick up the costs for some families. Uniforms will not be the cheapest option for families, which means some families won’t be able to afford them. More families will claim they can’t afford them. What do you do with those students, expel them? That’s not going to fly legally and is bad policy. So the taxpayer would have to buy the uniforms for some students. The easiest and legally safest way to determine who gets subsidized uniforms is to give them to kids who qualify for subsidized lunches, which is a significant percentage of our kids.
I’m not sure this is the best place to put our limited funds.
February 7, 2012 at 11:15 am
In the dark ages when I was in high school girls had to wear skirts with a specified hem length, and were prohibited from wearing slacks. Boys were prohibited from wearing dungarees and “undershirts” (read T-shirts) whether they had any logos on them or not.
Nobody would even think of body piercing, toung piercing or connecting body parts with chains. The biggest social status issue was whether you could afford white buck shoes or not.
Golly, we have come a long way since then.
February 7, 2012 at 11:27 am
We didn’t really have a dress code when I was in high school but everyone wore either jeans or khaki’s and collared shirts were pretty much the norm. Some days folks wore T-Shirts but not as much.
I’m an unabashed fan of uniforms. I’d like to see at least common shirts – hell, maybe a T-shirt with just the logo screened on it. As for the cost, I don’t object to helping indigent folks with that. However, at the risk of sounding cynical I would point out the following: my daughter has been in the schools since 1st grade and I have never seen a naked child in the schools so, somehow or other, people are finding the money to pay for their children’s clothing. I have seen plenty of kids who were, by choice, nearly naked…
February 7, 2012 at 11:56 am
Tee shirts (long or short sleeves) in common would be fairly simple.
February 7, 2012 at 12:11 pm
There may be absolutely no causal relationship between the two, but I’m certain if you looked at the best primary/secondary schools in this nation, you’d find that the kids are wearing uniforms.
February 7, 2012 at 1:54 pm
@Tenacity, you are correct, gangs are going to try and infiltrate anywhere they can. IMO I feel the uniform will make it just that much harder to “pick them out” and therefore, maybe those who might be so inclined to follow that direction, might not. However, I could be wrong.
A uniform can take many shapes, or a more strict dress code. For instance, how about all shirts must have a collar, neat without holes or tears (i.e. no t-shirts). All pants must be neat and without holes or tears, worn at the waist and not dragging the ground. No skirts, dresses or shorts should be shorter than the 1″ of the top of the knee cap. (Or something to this effect.)
Also, teachers today, SHEESH, if I wore to work what some teachers wear to school/work, I would get sent home. I saw a person going on a job interview as a teacher. I said, I certainly hope that is not what you wore on the interview. They said yes. I said, well, in my business world, you would have been laughed out of the interview. They got the job as a COM teacher. This person preceeded to tell me, that teachers wear worse things then they did on the interview. I was shocked.
I hear some naysayers on here, but I don’t hear any other suggestions on where to draw the line in the sand. IMO, this is just drawing the line in the sand, getting it started of what is/will be expected and hold our kids to a higher expectation.
February 7, 2012 at 2:13 pm
@Ed,
If you look at the best PRIVATE schools in the nation – yes, they wear uniforms. If you look at the best PUBLIC schools in the nation – no, they don’t wear uniforms.
@Ray B.,
I could not agree with you more.
February 7, 2012 at 2:17 pm
Ya know, I can go either way on this, so let me kick it up to the political theory level. Most people on this blog and in Manassas very rightly believe that the government should not impose requirements for anything without a really solid basis, right? I mean, that’s about as close as one can get to a tautology. Yet here, we seem fairly ready to jump in and call for a government requirement without the solid basis we might otherwise insist on having.
Why is that? Well, if anything it seems to tell me that we are feeling kind of desparate about the school situation and are not seeing other really good and inexpensive alternatives. I am certainly willing to take a chance on less than proven solutions if proven solutions are simply not available. Is that where we are?
February 8, 2012 at 8:18 am
On cost for those who cannot pay full rate for any uniform: One thing which could be used is the Virginia Sliding Scale from programs within Human Services. It starts at the top with the current Fiscal Year Federal Povery Amount (based on family size) and the dollar amounts go down from there. Using the Scale, at least some of the cost would be recouped from those who are Low/Middle Income families.
February 8, 2012 at 8:25 am
@Rich, you ask a good question with “Is that where we are?” Let me extend that a bit – has the Education side of the house even researched out Public School PROVEN solutions to implement?
Let me take Special Education as an example. Our system does not take advantage of what is available for reimbursement from Medicaid toward cost of instruction for those children eligibile, or encourage parents to make use of all available. Take Assistive Techology – Ipads can be considered an item of Durable Medical Equipment if so certified by the Physician and either the Case Manager at Family Services or at the local Center for Independent Living also certifies. A PROVEN solution used in Public Schools.
February 8, 2012 at 8:28 am
@Jon Way…..Jon, if you were in the dark ages, I must have gone to school when we had candles available 🙂 My school years all had dress codes – from the days in a Catholic School, to time in a Dept of Defense Dependent School System on a military base, to a public high school. Guess in the 80s dress codes started slipping away?
February 8, 2012 at 9:04 am
@Ray, MCPS does participate in Medicaid reimbursement. However, not all eligible students are being billed for and the $ doesn’t seem to be coming back to those kids or even that department. The $ goes into the general fund. This is a case where the $ does not follow the child. In addition, there is a part-time position in the budget to help with Medicaid billing?
Hopefully more people will show up on the 21st to hear the work session discussion devoted to SpEd, GT and Governor’s school.
February 8, 2012 at 9:39 am
@Ray,
Given that we have a huge number of free and reduced lunch kids my guess that by using the Virginia Sliding Scale we would be buying uniforms for more than 1/2 the kids.
February 8, 2012 at 1:55 pm
Thanks, Tenacity….I was hoping with my post someone else (besides me) would raise the awareness of lost funding.
February 9, 2012 at 8:14 am
I would not be in favor of paying for uniforms for those receiving free or reduced cost meals. We already pay for their education, food, etc. I suppose if we are going to pay for so many of their costs, we should have some say in how they live. That only seems right to me. That means, not paying for illegals, that kids have to stay out of trouble, meet a set GPA, etc. Otherwise, they get punished by having to pay for their own meals, uniforms, etc.
February 9, 2012 at 11:04 pm
KUDOS TO THE MANASSAS PARK SCHOOL SYSTEM!!! 46% Hispanic Students, 53% Free/Reduced Lunch, ESOL 26%, 35.4% Local Revenue, $9,888 cost per student,10% of the population in poverty….and….
NOT ONE UNIFORM WORN DAY TO DAY BY KIDS….so why are uniforms a solution?
http://www2.insidenova.com/news/2012/feb/09/manassas-park-high-school-students-recognized-ap-t-ar-1676058/
February 10, 2012 at 10:13 am
I want to ask this question, because I do not want to assume: Do those kids who are on free/reduced lunches have to provide proof of legal status? The reason I ask, because if they (or their parents) are illegal, do you really think they receive a paycheck or have a checking account? Some person has con’d them into filling out the form and the rest of us tax paying citizens are getting ripped off. I know not every illegal does and I assume that citizens do it too, but I’m tired of following the rules, while somebody else is getting a free ride or has found a way around the system.
I know this is probably not the place, but either give these folks papers to become productive, tax paying citizens (not to be confused with citizenship) or send them packing.
AND WAY TO GO MPCS! Don’t know what you’re doing or how you’re doing it, but MCity might want to have a chat with you!
February 10, 2012 at 11:28 am
WSGFN…since the food program is USDA, if the family is on Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) or Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF), those have seperate residency verification methods. And if there is no Social Security Number, well, just check the box you don’t have one….and if you did, it only asks for the last four digits which is actually useless to ask.
On the income, since there is no requirement to show a Fed Tax Return, then it is an “honor system” since no verification is mandated. That said, if there was a question about it, and because it is USDA there could be a request for documents…but that don’t happen much. The form does say the information “may be verified” and if found false, the person can be prosecuted (under Federal Law not State).
February 10, 2012 at 2:06 pm
Giving them papers to make them legit tax payers is unlikely to change much. Taxes are only paid on reported income. There are people out there that report income, pay taxes and still get paid some portion under the table (un-reported). This is a fantastic benefit – look poor on paper but in reality have money. This may explaine why the family parked next to me in Giant was driving a very nice Cadillac Escalade but paid for a porition of their groceries with WIC checks.
February 14, 2012 at 10:16 am
Such a complex subject. I’m in favor of uniforms, but that clearly seems to open a can of worms. But isn’t the real question here, if the dress code were enforced, would we even be having this discussion? And why isn’t it enforced? When my kids went to Metz it was strictly enforced, the kids knew it, the parents knew it, and there were very few infractions as a result. When one did arise, it was dealt with promptly. I think Metz has always had its fair share of issues, but appropriate dress was never one of them. All kids leaving Metz know, based on the protocol of those who went before, that it’s a free-for-all at Osbourn.
I don’t think anyone can say academic performance hinges on dress. But I think what we can all agree on is that our dress code is pretty clear on what is appropriate attire. Appropriate, non-offensive, and non-distracting clothes are simply part of the equation in making an effective learning environment.