Good budget hearing tonight. The crowd was about evenly split between those who supported the budget as it stands versus those who wanted the Council to examine one part or another of the budget. Interestingly, there were also several County residents who showed up to speak about the City budget (for whatever it’s worth, when I see people from other jurisdictions I always wonder if they attended meetings and spoke out in their own jurisdiction.).
A couple of themes emerged: the first was don’t raise taxes at all. There were some TEA party folks sprinkled in with others in this segment (interesting to see some of them speak against public safety – that’s usually the law and order crowd). There was a crowd that said they were happy with the proposed budget – pass it. There was also a group that was a bit of a hybrid. This group was generally happy with the property tax but objected to the increase in the BPOL tax.
The BPOL group, led by Del. Jackson Miller (unusal to see a state level elected participating in local policy discussions but BPOL is one of Jackson’s issues) and the local Chamber of Commerce (which has become much more a policy group these days than the old days when I originally joined.) wanted us to “reform” the BPOL tax, not increase it. The BPOL tax is, more or less, a business license tax on gross reciepts. It isn’t a great tax (none are) but the argument has always been that this tax is especially lousy as a company can lose money but still owe BPOL tax. I agree with all of that (I pay BPOL too) but would point out that only the General Assembly can materially alter this tax to something less onerous. The City depends on BPOL for about $2 million a year in revenue.
For my part, what I really want to do is add 4 more police officers to get us back to 2008 staffing levels and get community policing back on it’s feet. However, I do believe that Jackson and others concerned about the BPOL tax have a point. I’ll be doing some research on that over the next day or so to determine the best changes to make in BPOL. It’ll involve finding cuts in spending to pay for a potential change in the BPOL tax but I don’t think it’ll be very much – the entire revenue from the BPOL tax increase was $100,000 so it’s not a huge number in the context of the entire budget.
Thanks to everyone who came out to the hearing. It’s always good to get citizen input.
April 26, 2011 at 8:12 am
I thought Dave Core’s suggestions of where to find that $100,000 were good — don’t resurface tennis courts that don’t need it this year, and don’t create an 8-space parking lot for $50K at a small park when they can use an adjacent church parking lot.
April 26, 2011 at 8:55 am
Andy,
I too thought it was a good meeting and refreshing to see that many citizens come out to talk about our community’s budget. You know the times are ‘a changin’ and times tough when what would normally be an almost empty house for “dry” budget discussion is SRO. I think that’s a great thing regardless of which side you come down on. You said something in your post that I don’t understand though: “…interesting to see some of them speak against public safety – that’s usually the law and order crowd.” Who spoke against public safety? I don’t recall one person speaking against public safety. I heard several “support the budget as it is” folks CLAIM that there was opposition to public safety but who actually spoke against it? I for one did not. I simply asked that 1) city council review the other parts of the budget that were not examined in light of the last minute $480K law enforcement addition and 2) that council find cuts elsewhere to pay for it. I personally think additional cops is a great thing and nobody and I mean nobody wants Manassas to be a safe place more than I do. If I missed someone standing up and saying “we need less public safety” then I’ll stand corrected.
By the way, I got so heated over the way the almost half a million was dropped in at the end of the markup that I ran out of time. I had planned to add, as I always do, that I appreciate the difficulty of running this city in a way that is fair to everyone. City services must be administered, law enforcement must be funded, the business environment fostered, barking dogs and collapsing houses dealt with. Don’t interpret my opposition to new taxes (during a horrible economy) as a simplistic evaluation of municipal governance. I agree with most decisions that you and council make for our city and I think you guys do a tremendous amount of work with little pay and less appreciation. But I also think council tends to get overly defensive sometimes when citizens like me and others, voice our opinions over what we believe are the wrong decisions. My hope is that council will roll up their collective sleeves and move some expenditures around to fund whatever additional law enforcement council thinks we need.
I was talking to Jon after the meeting and I still don’t get why, after 100 years of solid volunteer firefighters protecting our city, we now need to add very costly career staff. You know well enough that these are not one-time costs and will put additional strain on an already tight budget. I think, given the quality of the volunteer service we’ve enjoyed over these many decades, we should wait on even considering this until some semblance of economic prosperity returns. Also, what about the idea of moving the Education Forward placeholder under the school’s budget?
I agree wholeheartedly on BPOL. Manassas City is a little island surrounded by a county that is constantly eroding the “shoreline” of our business environment and we’ve got to pull out all the stops to make our climate attractive.
I certainly don’t agree with you on everything and we have some philosophical differences, but thank you for your commitment to our city. Please do what you can to find funding for the new cops within the existing revenues. A lot of cash-strapped city residents will be grateful.
Dan
April 26, 2011 at 8:58 am
Andy, I didnt hear a single person speak “against” public safety.
Also, I was not there as a “state level elected” I was there as one of your contituents, a resident of the City of Manassas, and a businessman who works in old town Manassas. Just because I am no longer a member of the City Council does not mean that I dont care a great deal about this city, and its future.
Thanks for chatting with me about the BPOL issue after the hearings. I know we both have very similar and strong opinions on keeping Manassas very competitive when it comes to business promotion and retention.
April 26, 2011 at 9:12 am
@dan: I can’t offer you a simple answer on the Fire and Rescue issue. If you want a fuller understanding of that issue I would urge you to attend some of their committee meetings. I’m not being a wise guy – it is complicated. Also, the money for the officers wasn’t “dropped in”, a majority of it was cut from elsewhere in the budget and put towards police officers.
@Jackson, I meant no offense but you can’t escape being a Delegate anymore than I can escape being a Council member….:) You are certainly a citizen and entitled to speak!
I do have some preliminary data on the BPOL stuff and believe we can make headway there.
April 26, 2011 at 9:14 am
@Jackson – also, thanks for your words about my Grandfather. I did appreciate it. He was a great man.
April 26, 2011 at 9:38 am
Andy,
When I say “dropped in” I’m talking about the timing. It seems to me that an expenditure as dramatic as $480K should be introduced, at least conversationally, either out in the hallway before the markup starts or at the beginning of the meeting so that all members are aware that its coming and can make decisions and potential concessions accordingly.
I’ll check the city website for future fire and rescue committee meetings. It doesn’t look complicated to me on the face of it. Unless there have been recent incidents where our volunteer force has egregiously dropped the ball, why the rush to hire costly career staff? More career staff means salaries, pensions, future pay increases, potential future demands for better benefits, etc. A genie, if you will, that will be nigh impossible to push back in the lamp at a later date.
Dan
April 26, 2011 at 10:14 am
I’d like to dovetail on something Dan mentioned above with regards to fire & rescue services in Manassas. I am a former volunteer firefighter with a Prince William Department. The Manassas department has always had a great reputation for service within the City and it’s neighboring jurisdictions. I’ve trained with volunteers from Manassas and Prince William. I had instructors from the Manassas Department. All were volunteers and all were very dedicated in their service to their communities.
I agree with Dan that Manassas City’s Volunteer Fire and Rescue Companies and staff have an excellent track record with regards to the services they provide the community. I also have every belief that the department can and will continue to provide that same service to the community.
A couple of years ago, while entertaining the idea of returning to volunteer service with the Manassas Fire Dept., I reviewed what was going on in the department as it was playing out in the public. What I’ve seen transpire over the last couple years helped me decide NOT to volunteer. The rifts that were created between the 3 organizations (Fire, Rescue, and the City) and the ensuing fodder that has publicly unfolded embarrasses me and should embarrass everyone in those 3 organizations.
I believe the rifts between the organizations are due to what has been viewed a “power grab” and resulting power struggle for the operation and future of the two service departments. These struggles have resulted in deepening emotions, decreased morale on the part of volunteers, and greater divide between the 3 organizations.
All that being said, I have two points…
1) The citizens of Manassas are willing to step up as I am, but the public struggle between the City and the department’s is keeping good citizens away.
2) I am not confident that the addition of paid staff is the answer, especially in a tough economy where everyone needs to cinch their belts tighter and suck it up (including government at all levels).
April 26, 2011 at 10:24 am
@Dan: All Council members were called that morning. If you want to discuss that in depth, give me a call.
About the fire stuff, in a generic sense you’re right – adding more guys means adding more money. No denying that and in the short run, that’s the question we’re facing.
The wider F&R debate is complicated but at the bottom of that debate lies a simple question: How long is too long to wait for Fire & EMS help? 5 minutes? 10 minutes? 15 minutes? In a city, the answer is typically low. Out in the country, 15 minutes is probably pretty good. As our area gets denser (includes the County too), those expectations will continue to change and that’s what we’re struggling with. I’m fully confident that it will sort itself out but, like any transition, it takes time, good will on all sides and a fix on what serves the City best.
April 26, 2011 at 11:44 am
I’m glad you didn’t die this morning
April 26, 2011 at 1:04 pm
I recommend to all when it comes to the FRS, first read the report from the Virginia Fire Board….and read it without emotion. Take in the facts.
http://www.manassascity.org/DocumentView.aspx?DID=3840
As to volunteering, back in the worksessions leading up to the F&R Committee, the Rescue Squad stated on a couple of occassions it was getting harder to recruit volunteers – the time involved in certifications and then performing services is just not there for many people. Issue also over on the MVFC side too – certifications are a big issue.
April 26, 2011 at 1:34 pm
Mr. Arnold, the big issue with the F&R was the lack of volunteers. The volunteers may deny the issue, but on more than one occassion the Chief was running calls in his buggy. Prince William County was not happy about the situation with having an Engine show up with 1 or 2 crew members. Don’t take this as a stab at the volunteers, but times are different and people’s lives are full. The City has a responsibilty to protect its citizens and if the volunteers can’t do the job, then the City had an obligation to ensure the House was staffed. But the fact remains, this all started due to a lck of staffing by the volunteers and now they are crying about the situation. It is time for the City to stop pandering to the volunteers, let them know there is a place for them, maybe not at the front of the line, and let the career Chief do his job. If not, then the City will continually run Chiefs out as they use this as a stepping stone. And just an FYI, I am not affiliated with the fire house in any way.
April 26, 2011 at 4:24 pm
Would note that PWC approved their budget today with double the increase that we have proposed in the City……
April 26, 2011 at 4:32 pm
Andy
I think its a bit over the top to say some are against law in order. We are against higher taxes not the olive or fire. If spending has to increase in one area ut has to be cut in another. Those of us that are not spending money that we did not supply have to do it that way. Why can’t the Council? The school system is not providing near the return on cost.
April 26, 2011 at 6:23 pm
@Dan: Thanks! me too…:) Look forward to hearing from you!
April 26, 2011 at 6:30 pm
On the Fire side I am willing to put together a blog post to start some discussion -it’s a great discussion to have b/c informed citizens are a good thing. However, it’s a serious issue that doesn’t lend itself to cute tweets or one-liners. I’ll do the legwork but I’ll moderate it accordingly.
Post back if you’re interested. If nobody posts back, I’ll leave it be.
April 26, 2011 at 6:49 pm
From InsideNOVA: “SHOOTING in Manassas on Whispering Pine Court. One victim with gunshots wounds flown out from Weems Elementary School. That’s all we know at the moment. Reporter headed that way.”
Sigh…..
April 26, 2011 at 7:53 pm
I would like a post on the fire rescue issue.
As for PWC passing a budget that’ has a higher increase than Manassas it certainly doesn’t mean that our council has to.
I meant it when I thanked you all for the time you put in and I know it’s not easy, but some of us really cannot afford all the proposed increases.
Nickles and dimes add up. Assessments on single family homes went up 8 % in the city put the 1.6 tax rate increase onto that, plus utilities, plus gas prices can you seriously wonder why some if us have asked you to take another look at the budget?
When Im working hard to pay off medical bills from years ago (which put me in debt) I really can’t afford the increases and I’m sure there are plenty if people in the same position as I am.
I did some research
April 26, 2011 at 7:57 pm
Fair enough, all it takes is one. Maureen, you do seem passionate about it so I’ll crank one out. Give me several days though, I’m buried at work but you have my word I’ll put one out. I appreciate your taking the time to write and attend the meeting last night.
April 26, 2011 at 8:46 pm
Thank you Andy. When you get a chance no rush. I’ve talk to a few firefighters, both paid and volunteer and it does depend on who you talk to on how they view the situation.
I also know someone who quit the rescue squad(paid) because of all of the politics going on. And that was years ago.
Anything more on the shooting? Is there a link?
April 26, 2011 at 8:55 pm
A post of the FRS in Manassas – Yes, please do. With kind caveat of advice to you before you even begin typing and setting the scene for responses and your ground rules for discussion of MFRS –
Allow the candor through. There is no way to discuss it without that honesty, and there may be postings where individuals will be named. Candor does allow for respectful phrasing – in the Army, it is considered one of the “Four C’s” every NCO Is rated on.
Of course, your blog – your rules and adjusting a posting to remove a derogatory reference is appropriate. Adjusting a phrase or two as you have done in the past is good to. Candor though is the operative word when you open the points for discussion. THANKS!!!!
April 26, 2011 at 9:04 pm
@Andy
PWC Budget was amusing to watch – especially when it got to the BPOL resolution. I can agree with the intent to review BPOL and the rates, and study economic impact in terms of loss of the current $20mil to the County, and also if cutting it really would increase attracting businesses.
I am amused on two points: as I said last night, even with the State Taxes, BPOL and M&T, Virginia is ranked sixth in the Nation for investment by businesses, and fourth for employment. The other point is Mr. Nohe’s desire to see it eliminated – of course, with his appliance business, I can understand why he has the drive to do it.
As I also said last night, I would have to rethink the BPOL and the City. Off hand, and in thinking as a businessman and phrases made last night of driving businesses out of the City to the County, I think our City should do a comparative study ALTHOUGH much simplier.
Compare our BPOL, all the various fees, ordinance requirements, sewer, water and electric…..with the County same things PLUS any additional fees found within the County which the City does not have. Sorta like when comparing the RE Tax Bill for homeowners: the City we have one set fee, plus the utility rates. County adds in the various other fees, and folks depending where they live have various utility rates.
I think even the Chamber of Commerce who oppose the City BPOL but support the County looking at eliminating it have not even looked at the total Direct & Indirect Costs associated with owning a business in the City vs. the County.
April 26, 2011 at 9:15 pm
There are plenty of people who are fed up with high taxes,and out of control spending. The budget mismanagement at all levels of political office is out of control. That’s a fact. Where there is government, there is waste. It’s our jobs as Citizens to hold our elected officials accountable for all the spending that goes on.
No doubt it’s a thankless job that you and the rest of the Council have. But, then there are many of us in jobs that when things go wrong, the buck(no pun intended) stops with us.
I believe most would be happy with a fair budget, where we see true value on money being spent, and a real attempt to gut waste out of the system.
April 26, 2011 at 9:52 pm
Timing on the “drop in” of the MCPS funding – I am reading it above and a bit confused over how it seems to have been introduced only toward the end at markup. Looking at the Budget Calendar and associated Minutes, there was a long lead up to the final.
Timing – issue I have with it is the City has that lag time between when Minutes are approved and posted (still no April 6th Markup Meeting Minutes as of this evening posted); plus, the City does not on the webpage have one for Proposed Budget where all the documents AND worksessions notes, records, worksheets get posted. That said, as always a BIG thanks to Andy to his posting of documents when requested here on his blog! SALUTE, SIR!!!
Ok, back to the timing:
(1) First posting of 2 Police Officers + the one Restricted Positing funded by the Water Department, and 2 conversions to civilian positions is February 28th.
(2) March 16th Work Session has discussion of the inititative related to GTS and MCPD involvement; plus first reference to MCPS Retention added to Open Items List.
(3) March 23rd Work Session has a long list of items which where request for information related to cost of Police Services. What I note is those things related to both costs of Police Services, and items needed for deciding on Retention.
(4) April 6th Markup and Andy posts Open End Item List a day or two later on blog.
(5) April 11th Andy presents City Council Budget
Given the time line, I am confused on how Dan sees it as a timing issue.
April 26, 2011 at 10:16 pm
Andy, I too would love to particpate and read the input on an FRS post. Thanks.
Dan
April 27, 2011 at 8:03 am
@Raymond:
Thank you so much for linking to the report. In there you will find (on Page 13):
“During interviews with the fire and EMS organizations, there was a consistent desire to
regain the Station Captain position. This position was seen as playing a vital role in
maintaining consistency between the rotating career shifts and providing them direct
supervision as well as enhancing the cross‐organizational communication with the
volunteer fire and EMS organizations.
Recommendations:
1. It is recommended that the City hire station captains to provide direct supervision of
the rotating career shifts and lieutenants and serve as a direct intermediary with the
volunteer fire and EMS organizations.”
Now, I don’t read that and come to the conclusion “hire 3 Battalion Chiefs”, but that seems to be the conclusion reached as evidenced by the City Manager’s budget. That budget ELIMINATES the Station Captain positions (which have been vacant since Chief Wood was initially hired), and Council’s budget endorsed that through. Having been at nearly every meeting of the FRC, I can also say with certainty that this issue has not been discussed at the FRC level.
As alluded to in the report, I believe if you go ask the volunteers what’s the worst thing to happen to the “system” in the past couple years, pulling the Captains from the stations would rank very high on the list.
And this recommendation can’t be coming from the new incoming Chief Bowman, since the Manager’s budget was prepared with this in it before the interviews for the Chief position were even conducted.
The mystery is where did this come from and why?
@Dan:
The FRC meets 3rd Thursday of every month, 2nd Floor Conference Room of City Hall, 6pm.
April 27, 2011 at 11:25 am
@David Good question on where the 3 Bn Chiefs came from – when I saw that in the budget, I did not dig down FRC Minutes to see if it was there, or other docs, since my impression it came out of the Rank Structure study stuff. Hmmm, good question.
April 27, 2011 at 2:01 pm
@Raymond: rank structure discussed, yes.
Add 3 battalion chief positions discussed, not that I’ve heard.
April 27, 2011 at 5:10 pm
“don’t create an 8-space parking lot for $50K at a small park when they can use an adjacent church parking lot.
If you are referring to Cavalry Run park, at the corner of Ashton and Cockrell, there is one small flaw in the solution provided: The city doesn’t own the lot. The Jehovah’s Witness temple does. If they don’t want park patrons to park there (and it is my understanding that they don’t), then citizens can’t park there.
April 27, 2011 at 6:58 pm
Thanks, Steve.
April 27, 2011 at 8:35 pm
CLEAN UP YOUR PREMISES
Now that spring is at hand …let the town authorities cast a
vigilant eye upon the byways and hedges and see to it that
the ordinances governing cleanliness within the sacred precints
of their jurisdiction be enforced. Every good citizen will bow with
humble submission to town regulations, and for such as are not
included in that class, let the iron hand of compulsion be laid.
(Manassas Journal, May 5,1911)
OK, off topic- but Manassas “authorities” were being urged to
“cast a vigilant eye” at Manassas problems one hundred years ago.
That hasn’t changed.
April 28, 2011 at 2:43 pm
I’ll wander off topic with you. I was talking to a neighbor at the Spring Cleaning Day in Old Town, and thinking about getting word out to our Neighborhood Watch to plan some block cleanups in June to get ready for out-of-town history visitors in July. She suggested things like sprucing up to plant some red, white and blue (purple) flowers, putting out an American flag, things like that. Being patient and courteous to anyone who asks for directions or a suggestion on a good local restaurant. I thought those were great ideas. Made me think about how Connie Moser rallies folks to clean up Dale Boulevard before the Fourth of July parade every year.
April 29, 2011 at 8:18 am
If you have to tell people the obvious I think the cause is lost.
May 1, 2011 at 5:58 pm
I disagree. How many times have you tried to troubleshoot a computer problem, only to find something isn’t plugged it, or it was resolved by turning it off and then on again?
Several people have said something similar about residents pitching in, simply by being nicer hosts and cleaning up for company comin’.
As George Orwell said, “Sometimes the first duty of intelligent men is the restatement of the obvious.”