I’ve been pretty preoccupied with CMO’s death and that’s been a real struggle. He meant a lot to me. So, it’s been kinda slow posting.
As Steve has indicated in another thread, there’s a meeting Wednesday over at the Rescue Squad that concerns the routing of a powerline over near Wellington. And I quote:
“FYI: Dominion Power is holding an open house at the Manassas Rescue Squad building Wednesday from 5:00-7:30. The company wants to route another “high line” (like the one along the RR and PW St. in Old Town) through the city to service a new business planned in PWC near the airport. Information is on the Manassas City website.
1) What impact will this have on the City? How close do the lines run near homes, parks, etc. – including, of course, the airport. and Manassas Landing?
2) The proposed line seems to have major potential downsides for Manassas City and no upside.”
UPDATE: Ray provides linkage: http://www.dom.com/about/electric-transmission/cannon/index.jsp
December 7, 2010 at 2:09 pm
ummmm…the meeting is Wednesday night (Dec. 8th) and not tonight.
On the power lines…there may be an upside. The concept of the Technology Zone out at the airport. Not yet seeing how the map looks, since the intent is to feed PWC Innovation, could it possibly feed our City’s idea?
I toss this out as a neighbor of mine’s company – Pat Bradley Sattelites – located down in Nokesville at the old Southern States store because that is where the big powerlines led, and he needed that kind of electrical feed.
There may be a small business who also would need that kind of power feed and locate in Manassas because our Tech Zone has those lines.
Just concepting here 🙂
December 7, 2010 at 2:14 pm
fixed. Thx Ray.
December 7, 2010 at 2:17 pm
For those interested – the link to Dominion Power’s website on the proposed line. And thanks to our City website for the newsfeed that saved me time fishing for the link!
http://www.dom.com/about/electric-transmission/cannon/index.jsp
December 7, 2010 at 2:31 pm
Thanks for the link, Mr. Beverage. The one thing this map doesn’t show is where the lines will run. Having worked previously for a builder that built a community under some of these high-voltage lines, I am aware of the power company’s ” high-voltage lines don’t hurt people” position. I am also aware of the complaints that the builder used to get about children getting shocked when they went down their metal slide, riding their metal tricycle, etc.
I would not want these power lines going up in my backyard, regardless of whether the lines were to service the City or the County.
December 7, 2010 at 3:04 pm
Ray,
Thank you – the “Open House” is indeed
TOMORROW night – Wed. Dec. 8th.
I stand corrected. Whew.
December 7, 2010 at 3:49 pm
A map of the area of interest is on the Dominion site:
http://www.dom.com/about/electric-transmission/cannon/pdf/orientation_aerial.pdf
Note also that they say the existing Cannon Branch substation will need to be enlarged (Foster Drive near SERVE) and they’ll need a 120′ wide right-of-way from there about 3 miles to over by the airport.
December 7, 2010 at 4:17 pm
Please note these are big transmission lines, not power lines like you have in your street. Take a look at Prince William Street behind the water tower and pavillion for some idea of the scale. My understanding is they serve a county data center and not the city or its residents in any way shape or form. No more energy, no less cost to our rate payers. One route is behind the winter branch trail in the Wellington/Clover Hill area, other routes are also in the city because they are shorter and cost less money for Dominion than going into the county. My position is keep them in the county and away from city residents – who wants to be under big power lines – not me if i do not have to – please show up/send am email to this effect – thanks.
December 7, 2010 at 6:38 pm
Marc,
All good points (thank you). The question is what is the most effective strategy and response. I assume that line siting is solely up to the Va Corp Commission. I further assume that this does not benefit the City. If so, to whom do we write and by what date do we oppose? To the extent we can enlist a local congressman or state senator, we need to do this too. (PS- if the line is needed to serve load, it’s local distribution, not transmission, even if it’s higher kV.)
But before we oppose, let’s make sure this does cannot benefit the City.
Again, thanks.
December 7, 2010 at 6:54 pm
General question, which I should have asked above: How much should we care about this?
If we do care, the sooner we express political opposition, and are clear that we will not oppose a particular alternative rout,e the more likely that OD will propose the alternative route.
So, if we really care, we need to act and act surgically. If OD perceives that we will oppose no matter what, they will simply go with the route that is best for them. Let’s get them to go with the route that is best for us.
December 7, 2010 at 7:04 pm
Rich, I will attend the meeting tomorrow night at the rescue squad – as I hope others will – and get the details/facts – after that we can talk strategy as you suggest – thanks
December 7, 2010 at 7:28 pm
@Diana
As DavidB also added in the ariel view, if you look under the link for the Study Area, there are the Route Maps….shows all five variations.
December 7, 2010 at 8:46 pm
And now, to toss some more into the mix –
The BOCS at their meeting tonight approved changes to the County Comp Plan – Brenstville District for the Glen Gery Properties (Item 15D and 15E of their Agenda).
Dominion Power was discussed – and the representative from Glen Gery said that in their discussions with Dominion, the goal is to stay as much as possible from environmental protected areas as DEQ gets all over them about it.
In doing so, Dominion would bring the lines down along the railroad, along the Parkway to Harry Parrish Blvd before cutting in. From what I could tell following the laser pointer, it appears to be Dominion’s Alternate Route C at the link below:
http://www.dom.com/about/electric-transmission/cannon/pdf/route_c.pdf
Glen Gery folks are also meeting again on Friday with Dominion to iron it out. Since GG was there to get BOCS approval for proffer amendments also, I have no trouble believing the representative.
BOCS session should be up for replay on the County website – BOCS page – by the morning for viewing for those interested.
December 7, 2010 at 8:54 pm
Assuming I intepreted the maps correctly, alternatives A, B and C would appear to have less impact on a residential area than would alternatives D and E.
I assume that our (Manassas) operational utility guys could give us a sense of whether any of this would benefit Manassas, either now or in the future.
December 8, 2010 at 8:38 am
Rich, thanks for using one word – “future”. Ties in nicely with my opening comment about the City’s Technology Zone.
This may be another case of having a “pig in the parlor” – regionalism is a hot topic, not only with Northern Virginia Regional Commission & that 1000lb gorilla called “COG”, but also key to the Fed’s “Sustainable Communities”. All the various plans (even COG’s “Region Forward”) address demand for energy. Yes, at this time – repeat – at this time, there does not seem to be a benefit to the City.
Rich, your points are good ones…proactive is always better than reactive.
So we have the pig, but wise leadership says once you have it in the parlor, how do you make a purse out of a sow’s ears?
December 8, 2010 at 2:43 pm
Perhaps we should contact Del. Miller. This sounds like it may be in his jurisdiction…..
December 9, 2010 at 6:28 am
If it’s a state thing he or Sen. Colgan would b about right.
December 9, 2010 at 10:40 pm
Good meeting yesterday and Dominion was very forthcoming with information. Learned that their previous alternatives D and E have been dropped out of the models. (I called them the failing grades for running through an enviromental area)
They were dropped as Dom went out and did a further site survey after publishing of the five proposed routes. Also, the amendments to the County Comp Plan and rezoning of the Glen-Gery property played into it.
Speaking of the State…Dom was told they should be using existing right of ways of the railroad and the by-pass. Funny part on the railroad was I am standing there with Cindy Brookshire when it was said, and how the gentleman wished someone from the railroad was there. Cindy and I got a chuckle out of that considering Curtis works for NS. Maybe Cindy can add Curtis’s comments here 🙂
Of course, NS says don’t use the right of way, and VDOT says no cause we are planning to expand the by-pass (yeah, probably in 2025 when maybe there is money?).
Still, a good informative meeting. Mayor and most of the Council there when I was attending between 5pm and 6:30 when I left. Saw Del. Miller and it was good he came to see. Doubtful he or Sen. Colgan can influence it much since as (1) the laws and the regulations are out there and a change to the laws most likely would die in House or Senate; and (2) State Commerce Commission is a tough bunch.
Write up is posted on Insidenova although Keith got it slightly wrong when he said I was a “Dominion Customer”….although, in a way, I guess we are in the bigger scheme of things.
December 10, 2010 at 8:05 am
Nope. NS doesn’t comment except through their corp. office. I will share Curtis was in Atlanta accepting an award, along with four other road foremen of engineers, for helping to train the Keolis engineers for VRE. Tomorrow he’ll participate as part of Operation Lifesaver, bringing the Santa train into the Manassas station. Proud of that guy.
December 10, 2010 at 8:35 am
I couldn’t make it (sick kid). Did the underground option come up at all? They mention on the site and say it will cost 10x and they would need a special rate payer tax to recoup.
December 10, 2010 at 1:52 pm
I travel to the City daily, via 28 between Cockrell and Stonewall Rd. I’ve always known the posted speed limit north bound(towards town) is 35mph, and then changes to 25 past Stonewall Rd. I noticed the other day going the opposite way on 28 south bound the posted speed limit sign reads 30mph just past Stonewall Rd., and this is the same stretch of road where it’s posted 35 mph on the opposite side. I really did a double take. Has anyone else noticed this error? Or is the speed limit truly different speeds depending on which direction you are going? I find the latter a little hard to believe.
Help a Manassas PW resident out, please.
December 10, 2010 at 3:16 pm
@DavidB
I was standing there at the map of the 5 possible tracks for the wires with Councilman Wolfe, and putting it underground was discussed. Dom of course for the reasons they give on the website does not particularly like going underground. Mr. Wolfe prefers underground, and so would most including me if that is a viable option.
Another option may be, since we have our little electrical plant on Godwin and there are exisitng poles, is either add Dom wires to those poles, or possibly change out the poles to accomodate both sets of wires.
December 10, 2010 at 9:14 pm
Thanks Raymond. I too am. Big fan of underground.
Since you mention the Goodwin peak generator, i’ll toss a question to Andy et al. Wasn’t part of the new power supply deal the City signed earlier this year that the city generating capability be shut down? What’s to be done with the generating facility on Goodwin?
December 11, 2010 at 10:16 am
Against underground :
Increased cost and the following are cited by DOM:
” Underground transmission lines are not as desirable from an operational point of view. The duration of outages for underground transmission lines is significantly greater compared to overhead lines due to the complexities of locating failures and facilitating repairs.”
Nevertheless, I would think some strong arguments could be made for underground. One of which would be, I would think, increasing the potential customer base who would prefer underground.
December 11, 2010 at 8:50 pm
If that’s their prime argument against underground, is someone asking them how often their is a failure in a transmission line? Seems tp me that doesn’t happen often, but I don’t know. Almost the entire City electric grid is underground and I would say is VERY reliable.
December 11, 2010 at 10:15 pm
On the webpage, Dom goes into a little bit more about going underground in their FAQ. Underground is expensive since overhead runs around $10 a foot and underground runs around $40 a foot. Plus, underground lasts about 20 years – similar to a house with a central water line made out of PVC vs. one out of copper. Buried PVC weakens after 20 years.
Lifespan of an underground wire depends mainly on amount of voltage – the ones for residential carry a much lower rate (13kv) than the proposed 230kv lines so last around 50 years. Even our City 2002 Comp Plan says relocation of the remaining 20% of the City would be done “if practical” when “road improvements require the relocation of electric lines”.
Both of them are about 50/50 when it comes to outages. Undeground costs more to repair since you have to have earth-moving equipment, once they figure out where the kink in the line is.
Dom also had this other provision about going underground in their FAQ:
“Under newly enacted Virginia SB 645, localities can request the State Corporation Commission to approve an agreement with the utility to have a new transmission line constructed underground when there is a feasible overhead alternative but must create special tax districts to impose and collect local tax revenue to cover the incremental costs of the underground construction. In the end, the SCC will make the final decision as to what Dominion is required to build.”
Note the two “Catch 22s”: “if practical” and “feasible overhead alternative”. And with the SCC getting the final word, SCC is going to pull out their 2004 cost study on underground lines.
December 11, 2010 at 10:17 pm
whoops..ran first sentence together. The cost factors is not on the FAQ. The little bit more I refer to is the quote lower down in the posting.