So, one of the first things the Council does in the budget process is to adopt a Five-Year Forecast. This document is important for a couple of reasons but chief amongst them is that it gives guidance to staff about what the Council expects in terms of revenue (and by extension the tax rate) for the following couple of years. This guidance is, in turn, used by the staff to construct the budget.
In recent years, all discussions have revolved around keeping the average residential tax BILL flat. This year is no different. The Council adopted a five year forecast last night that aims to keep the average tax BILL for single family homes flat. In this scenario the average tax bill for townhouses would fall slightly and the bill for condos would fall by $400/year. Commercial tax bills will also fall sharply.
Of course, none of this comes free. In the “Flat Single Family” scenario, the City will have to cut $2.4 million over the next 18 months and the schools will have to cut $1.7 million. This isnt’ new: last year we cut much more. However, the difference between last year and this year (in my opinion!) is that last year the staff was able to make those cuts pretty much transparent to residents. This will not likely be the case this year. Those administrative-side cuts are done. The departments have already been mashed together to reduce staff and generate savings. I’m not the smartest guy in the world but I can’t see how we save this kind of money without reductions in the types of services the City provides. Not an argument either way, just an observation.
Please, if you post, be thoughtful. We aren’t going to save this kind of money by firing some guy you saw leaning on a shovel. This is going to have serious ramifications.
September 24, 2009 at 10:11 pm
Andy, I think it would be worth it to engage more citizens in the process.
Earlier this year Philadelphia held a citizen workshop to help residents understand their severe budget cuts — and get the chance to offer their input. Over 500 people took part. They split up into small groups and had 90 minutes to cut $2 million. There was a “wailing wall” where they could use Post Its to post what they’d cut. There was even a video booth where participants could shoot a 2 minute “message to the mayor.”
Sounds like sim government, but it helped people understand the process better and may have generated some creative solutions for a serious situation.
September 25, 2009 at 8:41 pm
OK, Andy and other good friends and neighbors, let’s pour a glass (or two) of good scotch or bourbon — your choice — and have an informal living room chat.
I don’t know for sure how close we are to cutting into muscle and bone. My sense is that a bit of muscle has already been cut. I definitely prefer paying lower taxes but at a certain point the question for me becomes “lower taxes at what cost?”
I dread hearing whispered “Manassas is lowering its taxes but their schools are terrible.” Strong family people will never move to a place that has poor schools. Never. The only people who will move to such a place are those who are looking for an inexpensive place to live and could care less about having a strong education system.
At what point do we decide we’ve cut enough? What does that line look like? By analogy I’m reminded of an auto accident an elderly (then age 89)relative had several years ago. The car was damaged but thankfully nobody was hurt. My elderly relative asked me if I thought he should keep driving. I responded “you’ve already had an accident; do we need to wait until someone is badly injured?”
So I ask, what is the test? What bad thing needs to happen for us to decide we’ve cut enough? I fully appreciate the political difficulty of opposing a tax decrease or even supporting an increase. It’s a difficult choice for hard working council members who often have to take heat for far less controvertial actions.
But let’s not convince ourselves that we cannot afford the budget, that we “have to” cut. We have affirmatively voted not to afford the budget. It’s a choice I can respect as a matter of tax policy and budgeting. But let’s not confuse an impossibility with a self-imposed choice. If it turns out that we are cutting into bone and muscle it is because we are choosing to. Not raising taxes to pay for needed services is a choice.
You get what you pay for. I want terrific schools, a strong police department and clean streets, and I’m willing to pay for it.
I appreciate that not everyone can affford to, but most people certainly can. Unfortunately, my sense is that many are waiting for the metaphorical bad accident before they are convinced to vote for it.
So, good friends, how’s your glass of bourbon coming along? Here, let me get you a little splash. Cigar anyone?
September 25, 2009 at 10:12 pm
The reality is we are not paying lower taxes, the average tax bill has doubled in the last 8 years and the city grew fat and happy, expanded services, but reality is setting in and the role of goverment needs to be re-evaluated.
As an example based on personal experience,at my place of employment our sales were going up but we were showing less profit to the point of losing money, we hired an outside firm to help us become more efficent and the results were painful at the time but the company survived and is now stronger than ever.
Some ideas may be to sub out some services to outside contractors, the amount saved on the city overhead may surprise you.Evaluate nonessential vehicle use,it may be more ecomomical to pay mileage. City employee health and retirement benefits need to be looked at and brought in line with the average plans of local employers so we don’t end up like the automakers.I’m not attacking anyone ,but thats a few ideas I have. I think the role of goverment should be the very basics.
The schools get there share of money[which has grown over the last 8 yrs without the test scores to match] and need to pinch their pennies also.
I just hope when some cut are made you just don’t pick out the most
visible items in a cheap political ploy [like the state rest areas] to try get support for tax increase.
The average person has a budget based on their wages and when you run out of money thats it and you deal with it.
I know there are some people that won’t agree with me but I’d like to thank you for letting me air my opinion
September 26, 2009 at 8:18 am
I really like Cindy’s idea Andy.
Plus I would add some Manassas perspective. I don’t think most citizens understand that cutting $100 from taxes means cutting $54 from the schools and $46 from the rest of government. So cutting a $46k salary also means cutting $54k from the schools in order to realize the full $46k in savings. Having sat through 8 years of budget work sessions, it brings it in perspective to see the bug spreadsheet on the screen and see in real time where cutting from one department or adding a penny to the rate affects EVERYTHING. If we could get citizens to engage (town hall mock budget markup sessions) more could understand and perhaps you get more ideas.
If you intend to keep schools level funded yet cut elsewhere, I think now is the time you must dump the agreement.
I believe a serious look at what departments budgets have grown over the past 5 years or so, and why, and are there alternatives that can get the citizens the same or near same service for less tax cost? And are the “near the same” politically and morally viable?
September 26, 2009 at 9:04 am
I toss in my hat agreeing with Cindy and DaveB – one comment I made during a Public Hearing on last year’s budget was the results of the work sessions should be posted on the web. That way, those citizens who cannot make the sessions at least can follow what is happening.
At present, the postings start with the initial budget and end with what is there prior to the public hearings. DaveB recommends the engagement of citizens, and I am all for that. If we see where a flat rate is leading us, and we are stearing away from maintaining quality core services (as ILMT describes), then it may be easier to show WHY a higher tax rate is beneficial.
I suggest, before we look at contracting out as suggested by Bud, we instead look across the TOTAL City to see what are assets are, and where duplication of services exist. And by total, I am referring to the School System. We are an independent city, and although we operate our schools following the patterns of other jurisdictions, there should be the view in these lean times that every asset paid for by the citizens should be used to the best advantage.
For instance, the schools operate a semi “public works” where various trade workers like plumbers do repairs. We also have plumbers and electrians in the Public Works. There may be down time between each of these where, even if a School House Plumber, if there is a job in some other government building, use this asset of the school system to work on that building.
I too have issues with the City & School agreement. Last year I was tempted at one point to ask Marc Aveni to do a chart showing how the percentile of the split has grown say over the last decade, and then do a projection out five to ten years. Then balance that against the core mission of the schools vs. the SOL mandate. Over the 14 years of putting two children through the system, there were times I saw – for lack of better wording – very dumb procurement. The example there is if you are operating a computer lab, such as in the elementary schools, why are you buying 25 individual machines (and even if obtained through grant, over the life cycle of the machine, there are inherent costs) versus buying 25 dumb terminals and one server? There are ways to save cost in school house automation.
I too am one who says let us look at the reality of services versus just doing what is considered politically correct. And as for the offer of a cigar from ILMT…thanks, but I have my pipe! 🙂
September 26, 2009 at 11:05 am
I’m open to the idea of such a “mock markup” but the question that lingers is how to get people to come? We have “public meetings” 2-3 times a week and there’s rarely someone there. We have in the neighborhood of 12-15 budget meetings and nobody attends. Heck, we go to the elementary schools once a quarter and only a handful of people show up. It would be a lot of work to setup such a meeting and I would want to ensure that a bunch of folks came….
September 26, 2009 at 12:40 pm
Andy, the only way you will get people to come in mass to public meetings is tell them that their taxes are going to go up. Other than the schools, unfortunately most citizens do not know what goes into making their local government tick. They will come to tell you that there is too much waste in government when they think it is going to cost them more, but when taxes stay flat or even go down, they will not complain. Other than schools, which are a sacred cow, what are you going to take away? Even when people come to complain about tax increases, they never have any specifics as to where to cut. Of course they always say to lay off people. That is always the easiest answer to reduce taxes. I am sorry to say that apathy has settled in and other than a few folks who say engaged in local government, you will not hear from most of the others.
September 26, 2009 at 4:27 pm
Mary Ann:
You’re probably more right than wrong. Very few people understand how local government works. Even fewer are involved at any level where the budget is concerned. Interestingly, those that bother at all are typically not ardently pro or anti tax. They’re pretty middle of the road.
As to how we will save the money, the amount is so large that those savings can only really come if we eliminate some services.
I voted against the motion that directed these cuts for two reasons:
1. I feel that the budget needs to be cut but that the cuts proscribed go too far. I like Manassas the way it is and I want to preserve that as well as our schools.
2. The motion also directs the staff to figure out what to cut. I thought the Council needed to do more homework – I like to use business methodologies as much as possible and a business wouldn’t try to change this rapidly without a plan. Everyone knows that cuts will have to be made at some level and it is my belief that, since we are going to reduce services, the City leadership (the Council) should lead the way on that.
I was alone in this though. The other Council members were comfortable with staff making the selections. It ain’t like I have any claim to being a genius so maybe their decision is for the best but I stand by my vote.
September 26, 2009 at 4:52 pm
I’m with you there Andy. Too many things get pushed “to staff”. These cuts need political will and political leadership.
As for getting people to come to “mock markup”, hard to say. I know I learned more sitting through those than any other part of the budget process but most citizens don’t see how cuts will affect them. That’s the key, to get the word out that EVERY citizen will be impacted. Signs announcing the mock sessions on every stop sign in the City? Newspaper and utility bill flyers dint get the word out, people don’t read either any more. How to outreach and excite? I’m out of ideas.
September 26, 2009 at 5:59 pm
Scrap the silly agreement with the school board and start over. It just makes no sense to dedicate a certain percentage of money to the schools, when If I’m not mistaken, no other department gets a dedicated amount of the budget.
If the agreement is not ended, that is all the proof we need the Council and the school board is not interested in saving money. Rough times, which I think everyone can agree we are in means everything possible has to be done to save money and to spend it wisely.
The money spent on illegals and ESL students simply do not get us anywhere. The drop out rate and failure rate for ESL students and illegals in our schools is pathetic, yet we spend more money and see very little return on that cost. The supreme recently ruled on a case in Arizona that I believe makes it much easier to blend ESL students into regular classes as it was done many years ago. All it takes is for our Council and school to get serious. No pr stunts, no fake speeches about how the council feels our pain, etc, we just need a few good people to stand up and do what is in the best interest of the City, and not worry about the PC backlash.
I don’t mind paying my fair share of taxes for services, I just hate to see money wasted.
September 26, 2009 at 6:29 pm
One interesting part of this equation is that while the Manassas tax rate is higher, the dollar amount received by Manassas in taxes on the average house is one of the lowest (if not the lowest) in Northern Virginia. And we have a low Personal Property rate. The upshot is that Fairfax County gets nearly 50% more money from the average home than Manassas does.
And the cost of providing services (police, schools, streets, etc) is essentially the same here as in Fairfax. A Manassas cop costs about the same as his Fairfax counterpart. And I think our citizens demand the same level of services as in Fairfax or elsewhere in Northern Virginia.
Now, I’m not arguing for more/higher taxes. Quite the contrary. I can’t envision a realistic scenario where tax bills increase.
I absolutely agree than we (and the School Board) must continue to work towards a bigger bang for our bucks. More money is not always the answer. But I think this info points out that on the whole, Manassas has been a pretty efficiently run City for a long time. Its never 100% efficient, no organization is. And we need input from citizens to drive greater efficiency.
In the long run we must continue our economic development strategy and make Manassas THE place to live and work in Northern Virginia.
September 26, 2009 at 6:43 pm
The Nov. 14 Neighborhood Conference at the Boys & Girls Club would be a great opportunity to get citizen input.
Here’s the link to more info on what Philly did in Feb 2009. A total of 1700 people took part in four forums. It was a partnership with the local university.
http://whyy.org/blogs/itsourcity/full-coverage-of-budget-workshops/
September 26, 2009 at 9:56 pm
Andy, you are correct it is hard to have folks come out to speak on just about anything. The Council calendar is clearly published and so are the agendas so you know what meeting when is Citizens’ Time – and 7:30 pm for those is a good time. As for the Quartely Town Hall, the City does a great job (to include direct mailings) to let people know, Mary Ann’s use of the word apathy is probably the best way to describe it. It will not be until some dramatic happens that folks will come out of the woodworks.
Once was told there are two rules of politics: all politics are local; and decisions are made by those who show up. It is a quandry on how to get them to show up. That said, all the City Council can do is keep trying to provide the opportunities to get the information out, and allow a means for written comment. I know that has always been true you can address a letter or call, but for the budget work sessions, that needs to be there.
Cindy has the right idea about the Neighborhood Conference. We are both on the Planning Committee for this year, and one of the things in the works is to carry forward what occured last year. As people came in, there were the neighborhoods on the wall, and people could comment and those were collected into a report. This year, the idea is to do it again (with the use of volunteers versus the consultants of last year). There could be questions asked on what they feel are money issues. I even volunteered to compile the report following last year’s format so it can be published.
There will always be only a minority who come to speak – you could stand on the water towers and announce it through a bull horn, but most folks are caught up in the day to day and won’t here. Still, I agree every resonable method should be made.
September 26, 2009 at 10:03 pm
Oh, oh, oh…just opened my utility bill and find the Public Works newsletter. Two things still strike me – why has it taken so long for the schools to get on the recycle bandwagon and the leaf collection is just nonsense.
The recycle in schools bugged me for years. There is the statement we are always below the Commonwealth’s percentage, and yet the one place we have to teach our growing citizens what to do, and influence them to maybe take it home with them, we did not due for years. I recycle everything the City allows – and taught my kids accordingly. Please pardon the rant.
The leaf collection – I do not know how much it costs each year, but it just does not work. Both my son Andy and I think this is one budget line that could disappear. In 15 years of living here, I have never ever raked my leaves to the curb since I figure I am paying for the recycle service – and the best thing that ever happened was it went year round.
People do not follow the schedule, and the piles just sit. And then they clog up the flow of rain or snow melt…and aren’t we supposed to also be not having yard waste blocking that flow? Says so in the Public Works paper. I remember one year the truck went down and the part took forever to be ordered – so now you have a blown schedule, down time, and direct/indirect dollars being wasted.
Let’s kill the line item for leaf collection and let people make use of the service they pay for every month for recycle. Two votes in this household for that!
September 26, 2009 at 10:45 pm
Raymond,
I agree, I just put the leafs out on Monday and they are picked up as yard “waste”.
Mark,
Do you want to start to compare Fairfax to Manassas? I’ve lived in both jurisdictions, and love the City, but there is just no way you can compare the two, so, please try to stop comparing tax rates, etc of the two. It simply sounds like you are telling us we don’t have so bad, so stop the complaining.
I remember a couple of years ago, I believe it was Mr. Moon who was trying to explain away a non compete contract the City signed with our trash collecting company, and to justify the rates, said well compared to surrounding jurisdictions, it’s a good deal. That is a dangerous game to play.
Fairfax County eliminated the County sticker, will the City do the same, since after all other local jurisdictions have? Fairfax allows their Citizens to use their public water supply lake for fishing(I know there is an effort to get ours open again) but until then, why can’t we be like other jurisdictions? See, what I mean? It’s a game that is silly to play and makes our leadership look silly when they start to compare our City to other local jurisdictions. We are our own City, and we should do what is best for our Citizens, based on what we have and need, not based on what other jurisdictions have or may not have.
September 27, 2009 at 6:49 am
COM:
We eliminated stickers last year during the restructuring so that we could eliminate a staff position in the treasurer’s office. I thought they were a good idea but voted to save the money. My recollection is that it often took more than one person to deal with them and wasn’t revenue neutral-positive.
September 27, 2009 at 8:47 am
Is there a REAL dollar amount associated with the leaf pickup? Its one guy in the vac truck, right? What would that guy and that truck be otherwise doing 40 hours per week (assuming that is a full time position)? What (any?) REAL savings are to be had by eliminating? I’m not so sure the yard waste pickup contractor factored all that extra into their rate and might raise a stink?
I’m sure the City would survive without. Its kinda neat though, gives the City some character that no other nearby jurisdiction has. Whenever leaf raking comes up around the water cooler, the comments from my circle of friends is always “wish we had that”. I mean really, is there a real cost solely attributable to leaf pickup?
September 27, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Seventeen posts so far. Not bad. Kind of a virtual citizen workshop. And no yellin’ and screamin.’ Not bad. So far no obvious ways of saving the big bucks, but of course that does not mean there aren’t any.
The question is not the tax rate. The question is how much change does one want to inflict and, if so, is that the place where you want to live?
September 27, 2009 at 3:45 pm
David: you bet there’s a real dollar amount. Whenever the gov’t does something it costs money.
September 27, 2009 at 3:54 pm
Andy,
Did that pass the Council? So, no more stickers? And more importantly, no more paying the fee with or without the sticker?
I see obama wants to extend the school year. Not only is that a bad idea, but I see another unfunded mandate from the Feds. I’ve got more about it on my blog.
Oh and how bad are the Redskins this season?? Talk about a waste of money.
September 27, 2009 at 4:27 pm
COM: I don’t know that we did away with the license fee. I can’t remember anything anymore but I do know that the stickers are gone.
The redskins are just aweful. They’re a whole new level of aweful. I’m in “radio mode” now where I won’t bother watching but I will put the game on the radio while I do something productive..:)
September 27, 2009 at 5:57 pm
Andy,
Thanks. I’ll check the tax bill which by the way is due on Oct 5.
September 27, 2009 at 10:10 pm
@Andy: yes of course there is cost. I guess I should have worded it “are there any REAL savings”. I see this as an example of the pricess of engaging on a service cut issue. The vac truck is owned already? Will maintenance costs on it go down? Is a half or full FTE or anything labor side going ti be saved?
I know this leaf pickup is a minor thing but it highlights how complicated it can be to save. Its one of those things that gives our City character, cutting it saves what, a quarter or half or so cent (if even that?) off the rate to what end…
September 28, 2009 at 8:33 am
I am normally a lurker. This is my first post but after the cuts last year I think these go too far. We still have children to educate, a city to run and the budget shouldn’t be mangled just because it is politically convenient.
September 28, 2009 at 8:35 am
Wierd. There is a comment in the queue that I tried to repost but it disappeared…email me if your comment doesn’t show up.
October 8, 2009 at 10:09 am
Better late than never. We should mesh School and City resources for the “NON EDUCATIONAL” piece. HR, Payroll, Maintenance, etc etc…this would save a lot of money.
I witnessed 4 city vehicles taking up PRECIOUS parking space on Battle street the other morning…4. 2 people working to “repair” the NEW BRICKS, 5 standing around watching! REALLY????? talk about a waste of money.
If the schools and “CITY” meshed services these folks could have been some place being productive.
Everyone keeps looking for the GREAT BIG SAVE…when if you add up all the “little savings”…they eventually get you to where you need to be.
October 8, 2009 at 1:15 pm
WSGFN, I am not saying there isn’t waste, but you saw may not have been as it appears. Maybe a crew stopped by to relay a message about a later job or such. This whole thought process with traffic workers that if a few are standing for a few minutes they are not needed on the job is ridicoulous. Unfortunately OSHA laws require having several people around for safety when working in the street or maybe they are waiting to assist with a portion of the job they weren’t needed for at that time. Again, I am not saying you aren’t right, but just maybe you do not know the whole story.
January 25, 2010 at 2:24 am
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