Well, we had a pretty long meeting last night with the new boss of the City’s Fire and Rescue department – Chief Wood. I was reasonably impressed with his presentation. He’s only been on the job for about 3 months or so but clearly has a grasp of the issues facing his new department. Using a hybrid of data collected by our volunteers over the years, industry standard trends and new data, he made an excellent presentation.
Of immediate interest, especially given the economic environment we find ourselves in, was his proposal for adding 6 staff members and opening a second station to improve response times in the southern section of the City. I am concerned about the response times there but of equal interest to me is the addition of staff and that station. I need to see what both of those things mean in the context of a longer-term plan as I want to ensure that I understand what I’m signing the citizens up for by agreeing to all of that.
Understanding all of this will take a fair amount of work and much more give and take between the council and the Chief. We’ll get there and, when we do, I know we’ll have the best possible plan.
February 20, 2009 at 9:52 pm
How much money did he say it would cost to add a Station and the six additional employees? Is it possible to reroute some of the money we spend on esl classes to the fire department? If not, I simply do not see how the City can afford these new expenses at this time.
February 21, 2009 at 11:33 pm
Yes, in austere times, it is a tough issue to fund a public safety new item that would expand coverage and improve services. This is one of those times I wish the City website posted such presentations – if we City residents could see it, it would help in selling it.
My first thought runs to maybe another year or two of additional fire levy. The one we have in FY09 did not make me flinch (too badly on my tax bill) since I could see the long-benefit of the levy. And unlike other jurisdictions that will remain nameless, the Council and Mr. Hughes have managed it well. Just a thought for possible consideration.
February 23, 2009 at 4:49 pm
andy_
It is my understanding the volunteer firefighters were not given the fair share of time to present the proposal to the budget from the volunteers point of view. Is this true? I also heard the figure chief Wood requested was $50 million. Would this amount including the monies for building the second station and additional staff?
February 23, 2009 at 9:16 pm
Lindy:
The meeting ran very long and we decided to end it. We will hear from the volunteers. I’m trying to setup a meeting with them and a seperate meeting with Chief Wood in order to educate myself somewhat on the matter.
I haven’t seen the budget but I can’t imagine his request is for $50 million. The budget for the whole city (minus the schools) is $50 million. If I were to guess I would say somewhere around $5 million as the fire levy is 10 cents and each penny brings in somewhere around $400-$500 so that is somewhere around $5 million. I’ll know more on Wed.
February 24, 2009 at 12:47 pm
Manassas City has a long tradition of providing excellent fire and
rescue service for a comparatively modest cost to its citizens.
The most recent edition of the “Comparative Report of Local
Government Revenues and Expenditures” issued by the
Commonwealth of Virginia’s Auditor of Public Accounts (for the
FY ending June 30, 2007) notes the Per Capita cost of fire
and rescue service for Manassas City was $88 – half of the average
for the 39 cities in Virginia. Among all jurisdictions listed are Prince
William County ($170), Fairfax County ($200), Fairfax City ($422),
Manassas Park ($136), and Fredericksburg ($191).
Times and circumstances change but the historic commitment of
Manassas Fire and Rescue to provide the citizens of our community
with extraordinary service at the lowest reasonable financial cost
will, I trust, never change.
February 24, 2009 at 4:11 pm
Ya know…do I even get started. Let’s see…hmmmm…OK.
SOME MONEY…NO MONEY.
Bingo, they stopped doing bingo because they couldn’t get enough volunteers. BUT did they ever think about outsourcing it? Split the profit? It works VERY WELL down in the Tidewater/VA Beach area. LOTS of organizations make GOOD MONEY doing it this way.
I know that I give a donation to the MVFD every year as I know everyone on my block does…KNOCK ON WOOD…I’ve never had to use their services…AH which brings me to my 3rd.
How many “incidents” have we had in MC that we were unable to respond to in a timely fashion? Do we have that chart? Can we see how many lives were lost and how much property damage was done because we were unable to respond in a “timely fashion”? How many lives would be saved and what would the property damage difference be if we added 6 more firefighters and another fire house with how many more fire trucks?
Maybe if we just fixed those “fire hydrants” that say out of service in MC it would be less costly all the way around.
Sorry Andy, just couldn’t resist.
February 24, 2009 at 6:17 pm
WSGFN, I am not sure what hydrants you are talking about. Also, hydrants don’t extinguish fires, brave men and woman do. The bottom line is the volunteers as much as I like many of them and even have as friends, blew their chance. You can’t leave a fire house unstaffed as they did on super bowl sunday or new years eve or any other normal day. Times have changed to no fault of the volunteers. They just need to accept the fact that they can no longer handle the City by themselves. The City is way under NFPA standards and needs to catch up to the times before we have to mourn the death of a fire fighter. In the fire service we prepare for the worse case scenario and hope for the best. Take a look at Fairfax City in comparison to the City of Manassas.
February 24, 2009 at 8:16 pm
The proposed budget is 100 million as provided in the MJM. Which means, the schools get $50 million dollars. Wow, it must be nice to be an illegal, not pay taxes and get a free education for your children at the expense of the children whose parents do pay taxes.
Once again the budget solution is simple for those that are truly interested in coming up with a better budget, and are not just looking to continue the status quo. Ditch the dedicated percentage of the budget for the school board and cut the esl classes(where most of the illegals are) which costs much more then regular classes. Fold those kids into regular classes and let them learn the way we used to teach kids in this Country.
Would anyone support providing an x amount of money to any department, not based on need, but based on the percentage of the overall budget?
And before anyone jumps and says we can’t get rid of the esl classes, give it a rest. ESL classes are a racket for the teachers unions and those that support illegal aliens, and nothing more. Before we(the Country) decided to segregate students along immigrants and non immigrant lines, everyone was in the same classroom and learned together. Putting children in classes where they can learn English not only from the teacher, but from their fellow students. They will learn faster, and the City will save money.
That money can then go back to the taxpayers or save the job of someone who is going to be laid off because the City spends too much money on illegals, and not on the people who pay their taxes and are not breaking the law.
February 24, 2009 at 8:23 pm
We have a terrific department with a laudable history, and I respect the chief’s desire to speak up for his guys (and gals) early in his tenure. But absent a compelling reason not to do so, my sense is that we should hold off at least for this year. As to the fairfax comparison, I suspect there are areas in fairfax with response times far greater than ours. We really are a small area and we don’t have localized traffic jams like fairfax.
February 24, 2009 at 9:23 pm
Actually rich fairfax city is smaller with more stations and firefighters. As far as response times I can’t say for sure but I would be willing to bet there isn’t anywhere in fairfax city that has a greater response time than the time it takes to respond from co1 to the airport.
February 25, 2009 at 8:37 am
Give facts regarding damage and lost lives and your argument might “hold water”.
Mommy? johnny has a 2 bikes how come I don’t have two bikes….sorry Johnny, Mommy and Daddy can’t afford 2 bikes.
IF the firestation wasn’t manned on Super Bowl Sunday and New Years eve, sounds like we need new management to ensure that the paid firefighters are there when the volunteers are not.
Without water (out of service hydrants) it’s kinda hard for the hard working fire fighters to put out a fire. Trying to find another hydrant a block or two away takes away from the response time.
COM: I agree, when the “boat people” (as they were called) arrived in the 70’s we didn’t have ESL classes for them…they learned English REAL QUICK.
February 25, 2009 at 9:04 am
We didn’t have paid firefighters when the superbowl and new years incidents allegedly occured.
February 25, 2009 at 9:35 pm
WSGFN, you don’t wait for a tragedy before you institute proper procedures to ensure a tragedy doesn’t happen, ask PWC. Manassas needs at least one more station. I want to also say I am in no way knocking the volunteers, in todays world staffing a major fire station is a chore and they have done it well for over a 100 years, they should be proud and commeded, but they are now taking in anyone off the street to pad their numbers with people who are not qualified and many have not had the proper background check done.
February 26, 2009 at 9:56 am
“The fire company has reorganized and is now composed of twenty-five
men whose devotion of time and effort to the safeguarding of the town
should be given full and just recognition.”
Wm. F. Cocke
Town Manager
August 31, 1930
( Pride of the company was a new 1929 Buffalo 500-gallon combination
pumper and hose truck.)
February 26, 2009 at 1:15 pm
@anonymous:
Care to back up your statement with some facts?
“but they are now taking in anyone off the street to pad their numbers with people who are not qualified and many have not had the proper background check done.”
Such wild speculation in a public forum is totally irresponsible. No wonder you hide behind “anonymous”.
February 26, 2009 at 2:04 pm
anonymous
Which tragedy in PWC are you referring…of which, of two lately, neither of them had anything to do with not enough fire stations.
Facts are…Manassas is PRETTY much at it’s peake for new housing / business …+/- a couple of 100 in it’s condensed 10 square miles. We also have back up from PWC & MP as well.
I would still have to see FACTS and FIGURES to help back up us “needing” as you put it, I say “wanting”, what has been asked.
February 26, 2009 at 4:08 pm
I have been a citizen of the City of Manassas since 1996 when I moved here from Pennsylvania. During that entire time I have served as a proud volunteer member of the Manassas Volunteer Fire Company including serving many positions such as Lieutenant, Training Officer, Captain and Assistant Fire Chief.
I want everyone to know that the volunteer organization is alive and thriving! In fact in the last four months the volunteers have logged over 10,500 man hours to staff the fire apparatus. This can equate to a total savings to the city of Manassas of approximately $650,000.00 based on average career pay rates. If you project that out over the course of a year that would be a cost savings of almost $2 million dollars to the city. Imagine what the city could do with $2 million dollars to fund other items such as education. Would it be necessary to reduce 32 education positions if that were the case?
Last weekend I personally helped trained 15 new, dedicated volunteer members that are part of 30 new members that have joined the company in the last 6 months. There have been several occasions where there have been so many volunteer members at the station that some were not able to ride the apparatus and had to be sent home due to the amount of firefighters present. Log books and records that are kept on file at the firehouse clearly document the staffing levels including the days that have been questioned in other posts. I strongly encourage anyone who is interested to stop by and review this information with the Volunteer Fire Chief or President.
I do not speak for the fire company and my views are presented to you as a tax paying citizen of Manassas. I personally do not support the budget that has been presented by Chief Wood and the City Manager. This unnecessary spending of money is not appropriate during these economic times. The combined volunteer and career fire services are working as intended and meets the call volume and response times of the city. Spending funds on a rescue engine and second station would not be fiscally responsible of the city. I strongly urge the city council to review this issue in great detail before approving what I feel is unnecessary and excessive spending.
February 26, 2009 at 8:15 pm
I happen to know for a fact that two super bowls ago there were no fireman in the station. This past year without the career staff the volunteers would not have been able to completely staff one piece of equipment. WSGFN, I will answer the question for anonymous, does the name Kyle Wilson mean anything to you? And the fact remains read the report on this tragedy and you will see lack of personnel played a part. As a Company Officer in a Northern VA FD (not manassas) I will stand up and say I will pay a few more dollars for the additional station if this is what the man the City hired to do this job says we need to do it properly. I would rather do that than attend another brother’s or sister’s funeral because we did not do what was asked by the professional chief. To hell with the feelings of the volunteers, this is a matter of safety and it is quite clear they were not performing the required duties and now they want to go out and grab any soul they can off the street to make it look like they have the numbers. There needs to be a structure change in the current volunteer admin. According to a friend who is one of the new recruits the current system does not provide for specific duty nights for the volunteers. Therefore, there is no accountability for who will show up and for who will not. As it stands, the volunteers show up as they please, this kind of structure is doomed to fail, as it has.
February 27, 2009 at 9:07 am
@Manassas Resident:
So the City should go out and LEASE some commercial space and turn it into a pseudo fire station? Where are the studies on what a station there would do to overall response time in the City? Why Central Park Drive, is that the right place for the City to spend money on a station? Jurisdictions surrounding us have long term plans on where to locate a new station due to build up/out of the surrounding area, do we have such a plan? And don’t you think a City station so close on the border of the City is going to spend a WHOLE LOT of it’s time running calls somewhere other than the City?
February 27, 2009 at 11:11 am
The comment made by Manassas Resident, “This past year without the career staff the volunteers would not have been able to completely staff one piece of equipment” is a completely inaccurate statement. The volunteers staff at least one unit every single night including holidays and weekends and sometimes two units. The volunteers also help fill positions when career personnel are not available, on leave, on vacation or have a holiday. Again I invite anyone who is interested to come to the firehouse and review the staffing levels that are documented in the records at the firehouse.
I would also like to add that new applicants go through a very thorough application process including a background check, physicals and interview process that is similar to the hiring process of career departments. The statement that was made by Manassas Resident, “they grab any soul they can off the street to make it look like they have the numbers” is again an inaccurate statement. Some applicants are denied membership for various reasons and never get through the application process.
A volunteer staffing program is in place and provides complete coverage during volunteer hours and 24-7 on holidays and the weekends. All volunteer members are assigned to a duty crew and must participate and meet the minimum requirements for staffing. The volunteer system is working as intended and provides the citizens of Manassas with the proper level of fire protection services using the combined system that currently exists.
This is a great forum for people to express views and opinions; however I ask that if you are going to make statements please have factual information before you post inaccurate statements to support your views. We need to keep in mind the “greater good” and that is providing the appropriate level of service to the community that we live in.
February 27, 2009 at 11:22 am
“This past year without the career staff the volunteers would not have been able to completely staff one piece of equipment ” meant this past years super bowl which is a correct and factual statement. I apologize I did not make it clear that I meant this past years super bowl and not this past entire year.
February 27, 2009 at 5:22 pm
After reading the recent blog posts, we felt compelled to respond to the citizens of Manassas to set the record straight and to clarify some of the misinformation that has been posted. We will not respond to any operational related issue as this is not the appropriate forum to debate such issues.
First, to WSGFN – the fire company struggled many months before making the final decision to terminate Bingo. The decision was not an easy decision to make and was not made lightly. Yes, the issue of volunteer recruitment and retention was one of the factors, but by far not the only reason in reaching the decision. To be a little more specific to your questions and comments:
1. Yes we did look at outsourcing and working with other volunteer organizations. First, state gamming law prohibited us from “outsourcing” to another organization. We looked at allowing other eligible organization to conduct the games on our behalf with the idea of making a donation back to us on our behalf; again this is in violation of state gaming laws. We looked at holding a joint license with other organizations so we could “share” in the operation and profits. We even went as far as holding meetings to negotiate with other organizations to go down this route. However, along with the joint license comes joint liability. Given the nature of gaming operations, this was not a liability the fire company was willing to take on.
2. Another reason for stopping Bingo was the time commitment required on the volunteers to run the games and the low profits we were receiving. Simply put, we were not making big profits that people seemed to think we were. In the past three years, the cost of materials and supplies to conduct the games increased substantially at the same time the attendance dropped by over 30%. In fact, on average across the last full quarter prior to suspending the Bingo games, we netted less than $23 per volunteer hour required to conduct the games. We could have probably made more money sending a firefighter up to the corner of Centreville and Liberia with a fire boot. We trust you get the point.
3. This brings me to your point on how well Bingo is doing in the Tidewater area. If you had only visited the Division of Charitable Gaming web site, you would have found that there are no (that’s a zero) volunteer fire departments licensed to conduct Bingo in Virginia Beach, Portsmouth, Norfolk, Newport News and Hampton. Chesapeake has one fire department that was licensed for two months last year. The only fire departments conducting Bingo in the Tidewater area are those located in rural counties with names that most of us have never heard of. We trust that you will note that those that are conducting Bingo in the Tidewater area are those civic organizations whose primary function is fund raising.
4. As we mentioned, volunteer retention and recruitment was one of the issues we evaluated when deciding to do away with Bingo. Since doing away with Bingo, we have taken in over 30 new members and continue to evaluate two or three potential new members each month. Based on the feedback from many of the new members, particularly those that came to us with experience from other nearby fire departments, there is no doubt that the terminating of Bingo was the right decision.
5. If anyone believes Bingo was so profitable and not labor intensive to conduct, have you ever wondered why no other organization within 20 miles of Manassas hasn’t picked up where we left off and started a Saturday night Bingo in the Manassas area?
WSGFN, you mentioned that you give a donation to the “MVFD” every year as you believe most people do on your block. If in fact you did donate to the fire company (for the record, we are the MVFC), our sincere thanks. However, please check your records that the donation was in fact made to the Manassas Volunteer Fire Company and not the Greater Manassas Volunteer Rescue Squad. We, the fire company, do not and have not conducted door to door solicitations. We did conduct a door to door photo opportunity fund raiser this past year, but we do not go door to door soliciting donations. And by the way, like you, we also hope all the citizens of the City do not have to use our services.
Anonymous – We are not sure where you are getting your information, but it is not accurate. Let us clarify some things. Our department maintains records that show the staffing of the engine and truck company New Years Eve, new years day (career holiday) and super bowl Sunday. In fact, for over two hours on super bowl Sunday, both the volunteer and career crews spent time in Georgetown South volunteering to check smoke detectors and distributing/installing free smoke detectors for those in need. This is just one type of deed performed by the career and volunteer staff that goes unnoticed by the general public. Furthermore, our records will show the volunteer staffing of apparatus on Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, Thanksgiving Day, and other holidays where most families are home and spending time with their families.
For well over 100 years, and up to the past year, the MVFC relied on home response and a small contingent of dedicated career firefighters to staff the apparatus during the weekdays. Last year was the first time the city gave us a clear direction on their expectations of apparatus staffing, that is 24/7 staffing of both an engine and truck. It is a fact that we were taken by surprise by the new requirement and were not given time to make adjustments. We have accepted this fact and have moved on to work with the City to provide the best cost effective fire service in all of northern VA.
Anonymous – we are truly saddened by your accusations that we are “now taking in anyone off the street to pad their numbers with people who are not qualified and many have not had the proper background check done.” That is simply not the truth. The fact is every member goes through the same state mandated training required for firefighters prior to the firefighter being counted toward minimum staffing. Every new applicant goes through a criminal background check. Perhaps you are not aware that not every applicant is accepted. Just this past month, there were two applicants that were rejected based on facts gathered from their background checks, one of which came to us with firefighting experience.
Lastly, we thank each and every one of you who have supported or who have shown support to the MVFC over the years. The MVFC is continuing to undergo change in the positive direction and we look forward to continuing our positive relationship with the new fire & rescue department and the City. As you have read in Councilmen Harrover’s post, the City Council would like to hear a presentation on the current state of our organization. We are pleased to have this opportunity and are looking forward to presenting to the City Council our current state. Once they have all of the information, it will be up to them to make well informed decisions that will provide an adequate level of public safety, and be fiscally responsible in these unprecedented economic times.
Mike Thompson, Vice President
Peter Pandolfi, President
Manassas Vol. Fire Company
February 27, 2009 at 6:15 pm
And that will be the final word. Lots of information and healthy debate but I’m going to close this thread.