You will never read about the most important thing going on in Manassas in any newspaper. Which is another way of saying that the Education Forward committee met on Saturday morning. Dr. Pope presented a list of changes for our consideration. Here’s that list in its entireity:
1. Touch Time
a. Decrease class size to 18:1. Currently somewhere around 25:1
b. Mandate a 200 day school year which would be longest in state
2. Best Facilities
a. Replace old buildings/infrastructure
b. Upgrade to state of the art sciene labs, libraries, etc.
3. Dramatically alter programmatic structure
a. City wide k-8 school of choice (kind of like pennington)
b. City wide k-4 school of choice
c. K-12 International Baccalaureate Program
d. Day long pre-K for all 4 year olds
e. Every graduate earns an associate’s degree from NOVA
f. STEM Academy as a school within a school
4. Education technology leader in the state
a. Electronic textbooks
b. Notebooks/tablets for every student
c. Partner with NVTC
5. Increased Expectations
a. A city that expects success: Council, School Boards, Superintendent
b. Mandatory Uniforms
c. Parental involvement
Here are my thoughts on this list: First and foremost, it is precisely what we’ve been looking for: a list of options, some of which are a reach and some more modest. It is important to note that some of the items on the list, if selected, necessarily exlude other choices. You wouldn’t do 3(a) and 3(b) for instance. Many if not all of these options will require money. Some will require quite a lot of it.
Just as a for-example: Reducing the student-teacher ratio (which seems to be a fairly direct and well-understood route to increasing performance) would be very expensive. A quick back of the envelope calculation would seem to require we hire 40 teachers (I could be wildly wrong!). Assuming they make an average of $50k (which is likely low) that would be $2 million a year in salary. I don’t know what the schools overhead rate is but say it’s 30% and your loaded labor cost is $2.6 million. They’ll also need some place to teach. Say you can build the necessary facilities for $20 million. That’s $2 million a year in debt service. That’s $4.6 million a year but that number is a wild guess and could be off by 50%!. Assuming it’s $4.6, that’s 12.5 cents on the property tax rate if we find no other way to pay for it (renting space, etc). This is serious business.
The committee has asked Dr. Pope to do some rough order of magnitude costing and an idea of impact for each item. We also asked her to work with the City Manager in order to come up with a proposal for a unified communications strategy. We’ll meet in early December to review the new information and make some selections.
November 13, 2011 at 11:10 am
Were any changes brought up that would not cost alot of money?
Have you reached out to Manassas Park to see how they are excelling?
November 13, 2011 at 11:19 am
Well, 5A has immense potential and it shouldn’t cost a lot. The expectations of those in leadership positions is very powerful if used correctly. However, I expect that we’ll have to select several options in combination to get the results we want.
Dr. Pope worked as MP when they overhauled their schools and everyone has probably read the book as well….
November 13, 2011 at 1:32 pm
Would like to see this added:
5d. Community involvement
As for proposal for a unified communications strategy, you and Dr. Pope have it from April – the recommendations Al Radford and I made to the first PR consultant the City hired. Look again @ page 3 – steps to strengthen the partnership between City govt & City schools to enhance communication (except PSA campaign – please don’t).
November 13, 2011 at 6:54 pm
Uniforms: again? Always the quick answer instead of enforcement of dress code. Instead of uniforms, such as in HS level, why not “business casual” since in theroy, come 9-12 grades we are preparing our next generation of citizens.
November 13, 2011 at 10:02 pm
Lofty goals…. but for the most part, costly … and not likely to come about without raising taxes, which many city residents can ill afford… and though uniforms seems like a means to resolve dress code issues… what about families who can not afford to buy one uniform (leave alone more than one)…
November 13, 2011 at 10:18 pm
Item 2 Facilities: put some thinking into this in terms of the greater Community Deveolopment and how the schools are a facet to attracting familes to the City. I refer you to the Urban Land Insitute Technical Assistance Panel on Mathis Avenue Sector Plan (Council LUC Meeting Agenda Item 3; July 28, 2011). In that report, it addresses how when looking at Mathis Avenue and adding additional housing, but also speaks to revitalizing the Weems area of older homes. Key point was making Weems Elementary School as a “lynch pin” so to speak by making it a center of education which draws the families to the newer housing and revitalized older homes.
The mistake as we look at either adding schools or renovating existing is not looking at suggestions such as the ULI made. I am aware from viewing MCPS Board Minutes that Community Development has briefed them as to how the department can aid the schools. The ULI is one such way.
That ULI observation about Weems and Community redevelopment, combined with some of the suggestions in Item 3 for programs, is an example of how going forward any school construction/renovation/revitalization should go.
November 14, 2011 at 9:59 am
Andy, the reality is that many of the older hispanic children in the schools are here as illegals. These children feal hopeless in there situation with the current political climate! Thet don’t want to exceed, for what? I went to Weems then Hayden when it was new! We did well because of our parents.
You can lead a horse to water but you cant make them drink! No matter how much you spend on some Liberal education philosophie, if they dont want to drink they will not! Put the resources to the above average kids and gifted. You will get the most bang for your buck! Alexandria is failing and so are most of the minority sections of fairfax county. If the parents send there children to school without teaching them to tie there shoes or spell there name, why waste the effort?
Yes a public school education is egalitarion but reach the children who have a chance! The city is blowing to much money on liberal educators philosophy! Give the kids who want to learn a master of english as an instructor! Why blow the resources on some more social equity programs so they can have more of there friends employed dealing with issues that have allways been and allways will? For the math department, use mathematicians to get the bright ones in elementary school up to there IQ level! Let those who want to exceed or have the nature too exceed have the resources or squander it to the liberal education majors who think we need more “programs” to solve our problems. These people that you will hire will not have THERE kids in YOUR school system! Think about that one for abit. Reality will set in real quick!
John E. Q. Esquirer, TAX PAYER.
November 14, 2011 at 10:00 am
I attended the meeting and was very disappointed. All ideas were very costly and they didn’t target the group of kids that are bringing our test scores down. As for uniforms…I like the “business casual” idea. Otherwise I oppose uniforms for two reasons.
1. If uniforms are a mandate MCPS would have to provide them. MCPS does not need to add a uniform department nor do I as a tax payer want to pay for uniforms.
2. Uniforms in a public school is not the best PR. There are a few exceptions to the rule but public schools that resort to uniforms do so for dire reasons – gangs, drugs, crime. Do we want those thoughts associated with our City?
November 14, 2011 at 10:09 am
If you bring in masters or doctorats in there profession, as in New Rochelle high school NY, the city will not have to worry about loseing there tax base once the babyboomers move out of pill hill!
November 14, 2011 at 10:16 am
@4kids: can you clarify your comment about “not targeting kids who are bringing scores down”?
If we elect to do uniforms, I think we should do them on the same application basis as free & reduced lunch. I like the uniform idea and it need not be a suit and tie…:)
Mr. Heinzinger: I can’t advocate for a solution to increase performance by leaving behind the vast majority of the children in the schools.
November 14, 2011 at 10:16 am
I am talking about as I had in New Rochelle, A Doctorate in History, a Master in english lit, an engineer in Mechanical drafting, a cpa in accounting! I still hear these people to this day when I think of these subjects? More proffesional educators with more social workers is a scam ment to get more of there types into the system!
November 14, 2011 at 10:30 am
After WW2 Mr. Harrover, onley ten% of the population had a degree! These were often in the hard sciences which brought our country to prosperity! We can train the other half to be profesional in there task but to think that all children are creatyed equal in aptitude is malarky! Why blow resources to get the least common denominator to pass a bare minumum standard test and consider that exceeding when we neglect the above average student? Public education Mr. Harrover was ment to train workers for the industrial revolution! It was never ment ment to be a liberal equalising ground as it has become. Let the cream rise to the top! The chinease, hindus and all of our competitors are doing the same! We use to do it here. There is nothing wronmg in getting people technically proficient in there trade! The public school is ment to train people for work! that is why it was set up to begin with!
November 14, 2011 at 10:35 am
How many osborn grads now how to balance a check book? We are a consumer society by the way! Just look at that request and think about it? My mother worked for the school board in the old town PO and it only had four employes then when you and your brother went to weems back in the day. So, has it improved?
November 14, 2011 at 10:38 am
I ment to look at the request on how to improve the school system. Did you not notice it did not include better qualified teachers/ instructors in there discipline? That ought to make you think a bit I hope.
November 14, 2011 at 10:40 am
@Andy H about Uniforms: My kids were at Weems during the two years the “experiment” occured which failed. You wind up buying several shirts since grade school kids do sometimes get messy at lunch, or other times. If only one or two are bought, a parent winds up doing laundry every other night so uniform is clean….factor in your liking of the idea the cost to the parents to keep the uniform ready – electric, water, waste.
I wore uniforms for 8 years going to a Catholic School in the age before permanent press – and there were 5 kids in that family. Lots of ironing and as each of us got older, my Mother taught us how to do it. But those were long Saturdays for laundry. And I wore an Army Uniform for 23 years which always had to be pressed.
Taking in your idea of an application basis same as reduced lunch: congrats, you just showed the uniform program will be a deficit – who makes up the slack for cost and lost revenue?
November 14, 2011 at 11:55 am
@Andy This was taken from an MJM article:
Pope also explained that the demographics of the schools have changed significantly in the last five years:
– With an enrollment increase of more than 400 total students, the number of Hispanic students in the system has jumped from 34.7 percent to 47.8 percent; the number of white students has been nearly halved, from 44.5 percent to 28.3 percent.
– Also significant was the near-doubling of students categorized as in low socio-economic status — students eligible for free and reduced meals — from 23 percent in 2005-06 to 45 percent last year.
Another slide showed student performance on the reading portion of the Standards of Learning test, with scores either dipping or remaining relatively stagnant.
Overall, reading scores decreased by 3 percentage points from 2006 to 2011, with a 14-point drop by Limited English Proficient students.
We will get the most bang for our buck helping these kids.
November 14, 2011 at 11:56 am
Sorry, should have noted that “We will get….” was my comment.
November 14, 2011 at 11:59 am
I agree and my take is that the committee generally agrees with that. The only open question is how to get there.
November 14, 2011 at 12:11 pm
Uniforms are a bad idea for the reasons 4k&d and Ray cited. Dress code is a rather simple and inexpensive solution and seems a sort of no brainer, I’m surprised it was included by Dr Pope. Did the Council also ask for bad ideas?
Mr. Heinzinger you make some excellent points, we really are on the path of making idiots of our brightest students. As for the teachers, I feel sorry for them for they too are being made idiots by implementing an educational system which caters to and fosters mediocrity.
I recommend Robert McCartney’s Pedagogy vs. paperwork in yesterday’s WP metro section, to get a sense of what the teachers are having dropped on them.
November 14, 2011 at 12:29 pm
Does anyone have a problem with #5? I find #5 insulting and patronizing as a citizen and parent.
November 14, 2011 at 1:49 pm
Why hasn’t anyone discussed Round Elem.? Round is our star and its demographics are similar to our other elem. schools. Why doesn’t the city figure out how and why that school works and mirror that in the other elem. schools?
Going back to #5. We have a lot of fantastic teachers and administrators but there are many that need to go. Cleaning house is not easy to do but it needs to be done if you want to increase expectations.
Personal example: Recently an adminstrator told me with my child present “my child couldn’t stay in therapy forever and that if the problem hasn’t resolved itself by now there is something wrong”. Given my childs working diagnosis and his age this statement was shameful.
November 14, 2011 at 2:06 pm
Re: #5 again. Where is all the work and money coming from on that magic bullet point?
My heart breaks for the heavy lifting assigned to the “bosses” on that one.
November 14, 2011 at 2:57 pm
@4Kids – that statement you wrote reflects someone who does not appear to want to work long in teaching. Smacks directly against the Individuals with Disabilities in Education Act (IDEA) and the ADA for openers, and definitely violates MCPS rules for conduct by Staff. Strongly encourage this be addressed up the line, and if no response, contact me since I represent those in our Cities who are disabled, regardless of age.
November 14, 2011 at 3:04 pm
@Doug – parental involvement increased as an expectation….oh where to start. In my own years there, I found sometimes it was wanted, most times not. And even moving forward once your kids are gone, for several of the committees you are not asked to stay unless of course you have a community connection. Which brings me to Cindy’s suggestion: that should be a major focus also as a bullet since there are a lot of us with no kids in school and foot the bill. Add in the focus on Neighborhood Revitilization, with the neighborhoods being mixed aged continuing and somewhat school-centered, then the community on the whole needs to be invited to the party.
November 14, 2011 at 3:34 pm
Raymond,
I read it. Again the only expectation of any time and money (uniforms) being ponied up is from the parents. As far as I can tell the city leaders are just being called on to “expect.” Whether we will be feeding them grapes and fanning them, as part of our involvement, while they await the coming of a world class school system is perhaps something for the next Ed Forward meeting to decide.
As to Seniors who can and want to contribute to improving the students’ academic performance that should be welcomed and looked on as a resource for the community. I believe it already is to some extent.
November 14, 2011 at 4:02 pm
You guys can have all the fun you want but the settings of expectations is of paramount importance. Bullet 5 should probably be #1. If you don’t believe so, you’re not even in the right zip code.
You either set expectations or you have to manage every little thing. The trick where expectations are involved is to figure out exactly what that short little phrase “a city that expects success: means. If we decide it means that 90% of our students are passing SOL tests that sets an expectation throughout the organization. It either happens or there are consequences. On the flip side, it also means that resources – money, people, buildings, books, etc are available to make it happen.
Still think it means nothing?
November 14, 2011 at 6:39 pm
Quite frankly I thought the meeting went well for what it was: Identify possibilities and determine basic next steps. That happened. I know everyone here speaks in good faith with good intent but I perceive a bit too much whining and too many rocks thrown from the sidelines. I understand that nothing is perfect and that nearly everthing can be picked apart like so many federal bureuacrats do oh so well in Washington. Let’s not make the perfect the enemy of the goof. Let’s work together here so that momentum can build in a positive direction.
November 14, 2011 at 6:41 pm
Ummm, “good,” not “goof.”
November 14, 2011 at 7:10 pm
Andy,
It means nothing if you don’t let the people who are engaged in the activity, i.e, student and teacher, simply get it done. We as a community, you as a council, the school board, the administration can set all the goals we can all collectively sit around and dream up, but if the job isn’t getting done in the classroom you got nothing, but a pile of pie in the sky numbers. You may not want to micromanage Manassas classrooms, but others do want to micromanage that student-teacher relationship and by simply setting lofty goals you may be enabling the very people who have contributed to making our classrooms dysfunctional. And I am not simply pointing fingers at Dr.Pope here, I actually give her a lot of credit for allowing Dr Werner to make some real changes at Osbourn, as a community we have to deal with the overreaching and sometime ridiculous standards set up by state and federal authorities.
@Rich,
I’m not on the sidelines, my kids are in the classrooms and I resent your comments.
November 14, 2011 at 9:08 pm
Doug, you attack freely and quickly, but your skin gets thin even faster. In the above string you had already stated prior to my post that others were making you feel “insulted”and “patronized,” and now you also feel “resentful” towards me. Actually, I wasn’t even thinking of you or remarks when I wrote what I did, as I was referring to remarks I’ve heard here and especially elsewhere from others about Saturday’s meeting. The first two folks I spoke with after the meeting, who didn’t even attend the meeting (and who don’t post here), were immediately grossly negative. In any event, I’m merely suggesting that we try dealing with the current issues in a constructive manner. Why anyone feels it’s necessary to get personal is beyond me.
November 14, 2011 at 9:10 pm
Doug: I’d love to “just let it happen” but it ain’t.
November 14, 2011 at 9:27 pm
Hoo, boy. Lots of opinions out there, hope you’ve got time for one more from the parent of three kids in MCPS, and a graduate of OHS 84
One thing Dr Pope stated Saturday morning was that the two most important factors determining how ‘solid’ an education one gets is the teacher/student ratio and the quality of the teachers. Now, I don’t know what the magic number is for the best teacher student ratio, but I do know that a great teacher can do well with ten kids or thirty. Focusing on these is imperative. I’d be happy to pay to attract the best teachers, but of course we’ll all have our definitions of what ‘best’ is.
At the meeting, I tended to note when the committee members all seemed to nod heads in agreement, and one of these times was when it was recognized that Baldwin ES is basically antiquated infrastructure. Since it will be replaced at some point, I submit that any new building be something more than just another elementary school. Another point of discussion that committee members wandered into and seemed open to was a school modeled on something like Pennington. That’s a tricky one, but if it comes to pass, I will no doubt be trying my hardest to get my kids into the school where the kids WANT to learn. (or at least where parents would make them want to learn) I’d really like to see every school do better, because frankly, segregating the brightest kids isn’t going to do anything for our SOLs, is it? Are they going to score any higher than they do now? They’re either naturally gifted or have parents who are engaged enough with their education to ensure that they spend the necessary time preparing for class. They’re all doing fine, as you can see by the kind of colleges and universities they end up going to and the scholarships they tend to collect. A high school sending kids to places like Mount Holyoke on a full ride is doing SOMETHING right. But leaving everyone ‘else’ behind is not doing the city any favors.
Social promotions must also end, and it’s a point I like to drive home since coming to understand that in MCPS, the parents of a failing student can ‘refuse’ the holding back of their children from going to the next grade. What kind of BS is that? It wasn’t on the list Saturday. Nor was getting LEP students up to snuff on English.
There are kids who can’t learn because they don’t know the language. If they end up spending a year focused on just that, they and the school system’s report card will be better for it. Being a year behind your age peers isn’t the end of the world. And it is also my opinion that the LEP students of today ( who eventually do master English) are going to have a distinct advantage in the future over the kids who only speak English and say, French. If my kids grow up and start a business, there’ll be more opportunity for them if they speak both of the most commonly spoken languages in this country, and not just one of them. (my apologies to any cheese eating surrender monkeys offended by my highlighting of the French language, I could have just as easily have said German)
I absolutely love the idea of continued and expanded dual enrollment with NOVA. Don’t know what it costs Manassas, but for the college bound kids who can graduate high school with a year or more of college under their belt it means savings in the cost of their higher education and possibly some empty seats in the high school to lower that student/teacher ratio. A STEM academy as a ‘school within a school’ also sounds like a winner to me.
Educational technology is a great thing. PCs/notebooks/iPads for every student may not go over well with most taxpayers. But if you gave something like that to the high school kids with straight A’s , it might spur others to work a little harder…Gotta start dangling some carrots somehow.
Parental involvement requests might insult some, but after ten years in this system, I tend to see the same folks running PTOs, PTAs, and every International Night, Movie Night, and booster clubs. If just HALF of all parents really made the time to get more involved, it’d make a big difference. And I mean just volunteer to run one fundraiser, or a club, or be a tutor or mentor to some students. That’s going to be a help. If you can’t find the time, well, you’re not part of the solution are you?
One cannot argue that increased parental participation is anything but a net gain for the system.
For some reason, the mere mention of uniforms in schools has a polarizing effect. What I hear first is, ‘I don’t want to pay for uniforms’, and then ‘I don’t want my taxes paying for uniforms’.
But like Board member Sebesky said Saturday, we’re not talking about supplying fancy uniforms, but we’re looking for ‘uniform dress’. We’ve got 7 thousand or so kids in school. A few simple collared knit shirts for each, and pick khakis or blue jeans to go with them. How much could it cost for twenty thousand shirts?! Yeah, and we have to buy them every year, forever.
Regarding uniform dress, if Janey says to Susie, ‘oh what a cute outfit you have on’ or less charitably, if Janey says to Susie, ‘ that Maria dresses like a slob’; neither one of them is paying attention to their darned teacher or their studies. It might be a bigger part of the solution equation than many would be led to believe.
What wasn’t mentioned was dropping of all testing that isn’t tied to serious federal or state subsidies. Enough is enough, and we hear it not just from MCPS teachers, but nationwide. If we had the resources to do it, I’d like to tell the feds to pound sand with their AYP. Likewise what continues to be missing from any committee discussions is how Round Elementary continues to ring the bell. Do they have some red headed step child status that I’m unaware of? Why is it that to this day that particular horn isn’t being tooted often and loudly? It’s a darn shame.
I also was intrigued by the idea brought up by Councilman Wolfe that there be an ‘opt out’ school(s). Don’t want uniforms? Don’t want to be an engaged parent? You go to that school over there. You’ve made your ‘choice’.
In closing, I will say that I believe that not all of the items on the list from the schools are as pie in the sky as they first appear.
November 14, 2011 at 9:47 pm
There
Their
They’re
They all have different meanings, no matter what educational philosophie won subscribes to
November 14, 2011 at 9:55 pm
Ed, that’s some pretty good analysis, especially for a Monday night. I personally like smaller classes as it’s a clear and definite move and I thought I saw numerous heads agreeing on that issue too. I don’t know a single teacher who wouldn’t prefer a smaller class, for teaching as well as for admin reasons. I also think kids would away with less in a smaller class. For sure smaller class size costs $. I’m willing to pay for it even after my kid graduates next year but I gather some will resist this. I hope I’m wrong about the resistance.
November 14, 2011 at 11:23 pm
Cost of 20,000 shirts….let’s see what we get doing some production cost out:
T-shirts cost around $3.50 each production; add simple logo takes it to about $5.00 so $100,000 give or take. Hmm, salary of one MA Education and one BA Education.
Collared Knit Shirts cost around $13.50 each production; add simple logo takes it to around $15 or so for $300,000. The two salaries above plus equipping two classrooms and books.
November 14, 2011 at 11:30 pm
Parental Involvement: good points by Ed.
But why only the parent of child in the school? Why not extend to Cindy’s point of Community Involvement? Retired Seniors Volunteer Program has mentoring/tutoring programs and, to add on to my point tonight at City Council about our neighborhoods will probably always be “school-centric”, what about the “school neighbors” who put their kids through the schools, and yet if invited, would continue to participate with PTO/PTA etc etc etc. Granted, we are talking the older volunteer possibly retired, but it is a resource not tapped.
November 14, 2011 at 11:45 pm
Ray: The statement that @4Kids shared is not even the beginning of what is going on in our schools right now. This is not unusual or isolated, in fact it is quite the norm. If you are able to help in anyway, I would welcome the insight.
Thanks in advance!
November 15, 2011 at 12:27 am
Andy,
I ain’t saying “just let it happen,” I’m saying that if the student-teacher relationship isn’t given priority as the core of your educational system, you ain’t got an educational system you got a bureaucracy serving diverse and often totally irrelevant interests. I don’t see that as the core of what was presented or what is being batted around by the expectation setters. The City of Manassas has broken faith with its youth, its teachers and its parents, you need to go back to the basics it doesn’t need to be as expensive or as visionary as some seem to think. Set priorities, the priority is not improving property values and getting people to move here, it is fixing the educational system, the rest will follow.
Rich,
Gee, I’m sorry how could I have misunderstood, it should have been obvious to me that you were referring to comments made to you off this thread? You’re right no need to get personal, let’s just laugh at those federal bureaucrats and silliness, none of them work and live in Manassas, none of them risk their lives and go to work every day to protect you and yours, none of them have their kids in the failing school system.
Ed,
We won’t know who the best teachers in our system are until we let them teach, instead of being slaves to bureaucratic dictat. If the student-teacher relationship is respected as the heart of a good and sound educational system, then teachers as well as students are the principle victims in a failing educational system. Reduce class size will help, but 18 to 1? It doesn’t sound like an honest number, it sounds like pie in the sky to me. If they had said 20 to 1 I would have taken the number as slightly optimistic but at least well intentioned as a number. My complaint is that so much of the 5 points sounds like fluff, it all sounds desperate instead of focused.
The tech stuff, hard not to laugh. Point 3 was finally getting to at the least core of the problem, but again it ended being wildly over the top, I think the NOVA idea is goofy. We can’t even get the kids out of HS and they want to direct energy at an Associate’s Degree. Our education management has ADD, I swear to … and now to the idea of parental involvement ALWAYS being great. No, it isn’t. Not if the system is broken then you can have the parents taking part in delivering a broken system to their own children, and you know Ed, and Rich, I find that insulting, not to mention just plain stupid.
November 15, 2011 at 5:34 am
Parental involvement? Has the Education Forward put in place a way city residents can give their suggestions or opinions on what they want to see happen in the schools? If so I haven’t heard about it. If not why not?
Is there a plan to solicit input from parents, students and tax payers?
November 15, 2011 at 6:37 am
First off, pretty easy to tell who has an agenda. Boo to those.
Second, why don’t the balance of you educational geniuses run for School Board and fix it instead of wasting time on this blog?
November 15, 2011 at 6:37 am
Kisha Wilson-Sogunro spoke at the City Council meeting last night about a project Northern Virginia Family Services and MCPS were involved in that has connected a dozen parents of students at risk to the schools, and they’re working to turn it into a parents networking group. Can the city or the schools share more information with the community about that?
November 15, 2011 at 6:41 am
When I worked in the corporate world, very often there were ‘change’ meetings. All hands meetings, department meetings, interdepartment meetings, et. al. The meetings were often long, some involved going off site, but all were designed to receive input from everyone who had an idea on how things could be done better. At one firm my manager actually required a certain number of suggestions per week, and if they ended up using one they even paid a bonus.
In those meetings there was always some foks who were grumpy and uncooperative. Claiming that the meetings were wastes of money and time, these rays of sunshine always opined on how since they had to be at a meeting, the ‘real’ work of the company wasn’t getting done. Never did they contribute in a positive way. Not every meeting got great results or was run well, but the point was to continually look to do better. I found that admirable. There is always a certain amount of ‘rah-rah’ and ‘lets go team’ attitude required that often seemed a little silly to me. I see things slightly differently now.
One thing is for sure. We’re traveling down a road with our schools since the city incorporated, and some folks are pushing the wagon, and some folks are riding in the wagon. I would hope that those riding wouldn’t mind encouraging those who are pushing every once in a while. If not, I wish they’d stop throwing rocks at the pushers, or telling them that they’re pushing wrong.
There is citizens time at every council and board meeting. If the line of folks waiting to comment is any guide, it’s quite obvious that the biggest crisis to befall the city in the last ten years was the opening of an underwear store, not that there is some dysfunction in the schools.
November 15, 2011 at 8:02 am
Once again everyone is dancing around what is killing our school system. It’s the Illegals, stupid(to play off a well known political statement). We are not going to have a good school system when over a quarter of the students can’t speak English. We are not going to have a good school system when those quarter of students cost more to educate, yet do not produce results that should come with spending more on them.
Parents of illegals are not going to participate. Recall the gang summit, we all know the people involved, yet, the vast majority of people who showed up for the meeting did not have any direct involvement in what lead to the gang summit.
Why should we be expected to pick up the tab on uniforms now? First it’s free education, then it’s free food, and school supplies, and now free uniforms? And, how is all of that investment paying off?
I’m shocked, just shocked that a liberal would propose spending more tax money on a liberal run school system. Try spending less, could it hurt? Sometimes less is more, it’s obvious more is not better in the case of our school system.
November 15, 2011 at 8:05 am
C’mon Maureen. You well know that every Council member’s email address and phone number is on the website. My address is in the phone book and the address of City hall is easily determined if you want to write a letter. I don’t think you’re going to get anywhere with that old, haggard, shredded chestnut.
November 15, 2011 at 8:24 am
Andy H,
Is the Observer right, are we wasting time on this blog?
November 15, 2011 at 9:16 am
Andy,
Observer is wrong. Unless you are not open to debate and comments from the citizens of Manassas.
November 15, 2011 at 11:33 am
A couple of things:
1. I’m open to reasoned debate and comment otherwise I wouldn’t have this blog. The serious comments matter to me. People who screech about random, unrelated, things over which I have no control or who attack others don’t. That shouldn’t be a shock.
2. Are you wasting your time? I can’t tell you. It depends on what your aim is. I will read your comments but I can’t guarantee that any other elected person will. So, if your aim is to get me to understand what you’re thinking then it may be a success. If your aim is to have your message heard by the entire Council or School Board then you need to get to citizen’s time during a meeting.
November 15, 2011 at 12:12 pm
The school system lost focus many years ago. The focus should be the children and it’s not. The system is so dysfunctional; I am not sure what the focus is anymore. Now to the list:
1. Touch time:
a. Decrease class size: absolutely as the current 25:1 is average, there are larger groups
b. Longer school year: not sure how effective this would be if the current curriculum/teaching style remains the same. More time wasted. I don’t think increasing the school year would be a negative to families shopping for homes if the quality of instruction was top notch.
2. Best facilities:
a. Replace buildings/infrastructure: absolutely…show you care about the students by providing up to date, taken care of facilities…not peeling paint and leaking roofs..maybe they will in turn care to learn.
b. Upgrade to state of the art labs, libraries: absolutely…provide equipment that works and put our students at the forefront.
3. Programmatic structure
a-c. I don’t think we have a large enough district to make this a viable recommendation-maybe IB at grades 7-12.
d. All day pre-k- great idea! Hit them early with learning
e Associate’s degrees…maybe way in the future…let’s get them to graduate from high school first and they are proficient in all subjects.
4. Technology: we must improve the technology that is available in the schools. It is woefully lacking. Are we actually going to use the e-books because I can’t tell you how many teachers over the years have told me they don’t use the books. Why spend the money if they aren’t being used. Notebooks/tablets could be beneficial IF ALL the teachers were able to properly utilize them. I remember when the smart boards first came in and the complaints from some of the teachers in having to learn how to use them.
5. Expectations: Definitely should be moved to #1!
a. The wording should be “demands” success not just expects it and not just the powers in charge but from the community as a whole.
b. Uniforms: I would not be opposed to them. It would make my life easier…less shopping, less time spent selecting outfits, no more bullying over the wrong outfit but would it be consistently enforced? Currently, we have a dress code and it is not enforced. I am constantly SHOCKED at how some students dress. The rule is the rule is the rule…if you break it, your parents need to bring you a change of clothes. Maybe after a couple of times, the parents will invest more effort in seeing that their child is appropriately dressed. And no more wasted paper/ink on contracts at dances after which I saw more body parts than I care to mention.
c. Parental involvement: I think we need to find a way to encourage no require parental involvement. We all have some time to give to the schools and most importantly, our children. And the community can absolutely be involved even if you don’t have kids in the schools. PTA/PTO membership is not limited to parents…ANYONE can join-community, businesses, etc- and ANYONE can volunteer. But those of us that do volunteer know that is the same core group of 5 or 6 parents doing everything at each school. You can’t just pay your membership dues and call it quits. I can tell you from experience that about 98% of the dues paying members are never heard from again while the remaining 2% are run ragged trying to fill all of the needs. BUT I wouldn’t trade is for the world, these are my kids and I am responsible for the end product!
I don’t think this list is finished. There are other things that need to be addressed. Some examples are:
1. Teachers qualifications: Manassas should ONLY hired highly qualified, LICENSED (not working on it) teachers. Accept nothing less for our children. No more long term subs in the classroom and call it a teacher. If the teacher isn’t performing effectively, do not renew the contract, replace them-forget tenure.
2. Parallel block: dump it! Math 5 days a week, English 5 days a week, science 5 days a week, etc. Who really wants to sit through 90 minutes of math? The length of time alone can cause you to lose half your audience sometimes even the teacher. My kids have told me they have “homework time” when the teacher runs out of material or gets tired or has papers to grade so the time isn’t being used effectively anyway.
3. Summer school: change it, the current program is a complete waste of time and money. Teach English instead and to the parents too!
4. ESL: engage the community in a partnership to teach English to children and their families in a low to no cost way…provide the locations and bring in partners to help do the rest.
5. Keep the kids in class: yes football players, you need to go to class! As a mom of athletes, I could care less that Johnny can throw a ball, the bigger question is can he read. Round up the truant kids… hang out at Taco Bell/KFC on any given afternoon and watch the skippers. Actively pursue and enforce the attendance laws on their parents.
6. Watch for the red flags early…no more saying there isn’t a problem at all until they are 8. You see there is an issue so work on it early. Just because a child needs a little extra support doesn’t mean they are dumb. Throw the accommodations at them to help them learn. Stop making parents beg for help.
7. Teachers use your technology to communicate. I can’t tell you how many emergency cards and classroom contracts I signed this year alone, but you have my info so use it. Create an email list and let the parents know what’s going on. I care and I am ready to help you with my children so use me.
November 15, 2011 at 5:40 pm
Overall this thread has produced some pretty good debate. Strong feelings? Sure. Conflicting ideas? Yep, but not a bunch of name calling. Fleshing out the issues through healthy debate is a good thing. It’s called being American. Kudos to my fellow Americans, Ed, Cindy, Ray, Doug, et al. And thanks, Andy, for providing a respectful forum.
November 15, 2011 at 7:02 pm
Andy: my comment isn’t for me is was a legitimate question. You know most citizens don’t know about Education Forward. Those that do are aleeady involved in some way with the schools or the city.
So I really would like to know how the Education Forward committee is soliciting input from citizens that do care about the schools but are not aware of these meetings.
I didn’t post my comments to “bash” anyone.
Maybe a questionnaire with the utility bill with instructions on where to return it might be in order.
The school boards email addresses should be on their website just like the city councils are. Could you make that suggestion at one of your meetings please as I’ve never received a response about this from the school board.
And please don’t take my comments the wrong way they are suggestions that I think have some merit.