Well, it appears from this insidenova article that the County has had enough: they are suing DHS. You can read it in the article but the long and short of it is the County is concerned that DHS is not deporting people but simply turning them loose. That’s bad enough but what really outrages me is that the County has submitted two Freedom of Information Act requests that have gone unanswered.
This is just stunning. DHS has not provided an answer of any sort. It hasn’t said “we can’t tell you for whatever bogus reason we have dreamed up”, they’ve just round filed the requests!!! I’m not going to make the argument that Manassas is all things to all people but I think the gov’t here gets most of it right: We don’t have illegal meetings, we balance the budget and, when folks submit FOIA requests they get answered. The answer you get may not be the answer you want or in the particular format you want but you get something. I know that the city takes these seriously. There just isn’t any excuse for this to happen.
I hope that PWC wins but I’m not optimistic. I’m sure that some secret court somewhere will declare the information to be important to homeland security and it will go nowhere. Hell, they might lock up the BOCS for “security reasons”…:)
August 4, 2011 at 2:03 pm
FOIA in the City – actually, I have found through the years the City Staff would rather you just come in and ask for the document vs. filling out the FOIA request. Besides presenting the image of good government customer service, it is better than going through the FOIA process on both sides of the request.
My bet is DHS does not have the accurate count/tracking and is stonewalling.
August 4, 2011 at 9:17 pm
My bet is that they do have the info and it is so outrageous they don’t want anyone to see it.
August 5, 2011 at 9:56 am
I think Raymond likely is closer to the truth. Any numbers presented will likely be “estimated” or just simply made up to satisfy the suit. But in the end they likely will get some sort of numbers…the County gave DHS a head start on this as they told them at least as far back as February that this was coming.
August 5, 2011 at 4:01 pm
Ok. First we have the ATF breaking Federal law in allowing gun-runners to illegally purchase firearms and smuggle them into Mexico. Then when these guns start turning up at crime scenes, they try to blame the gun store owners for selling them…at the direction of the ATF. They called this exercise in good government “Operation Fast & Furious”. Now Holder’s Justice Department is stonewalling the investigation. Today we find out that the DEA made a deal with one major drug cartel was allowed to smuggle drugs into the US, in exchange for information on rival cartels. We have DHS stonewalling FOIA requests for information regarding the deportation of criminals. We know how this will turn out, folks. The DOJ under Holder is a train wreck. Mirandizing terrorists captured on the battlefiled. Prosecuting Navy SEALS for “brutality” because a terrorist got a black eye and fat lip when being CAPTURED. Not “aprehended”…CAPTURED!
The Federal government has been dysfunctional for some time, but under this administration it has hit new levels of galactic ineptitude at a minumum, and I believe up to and including outright crimminal conspiracy.
August 6, 2011 at 7:50 am
Any sense of how many FOIA requests are submitted to DHS each week and how many folks there are assigned to dealing with such requests?
August 6, 2011 at 8:53 am
I’m of the same opinion as Maureen. This President promised us a “open and accountable” government. If anything they are hiding even more from the public than did the previous administration. FOIA shouldn’t even be necessary in this age of the internet. Another politician promise unfulfilled but the happy happy joy joy’s that put him in office are even STILL drinking his Kool-Aid.
August 6, 2011 at 9:20 am
Rich, DHS receives a ton of FOIA requests every day, and they are all processed at the same place in Missouri. When I was working, a FOIA request for a client took nearly a year unless they were expedited because they were in proceedings, and those took about 6 weeks. And that was just for one file. I believe PWC is asking for information on more than a thousand files.
Further, I believe much of what PWC is asking for is confidential. Any information on open cases is only available to the individual person and to whomever that person gives permission. I suspect many, if not most, of these cases are still open and thus not subject to FOIA yet.
I think it is a shame that the county is so quick to assume that DHS or more specifically ICE is trying to pull something over on them. I have absolutely no doubt that there is a reasonable explanation for what has happened and DHS is simply not free to discuss it due to the constraints of confidentiality. It may come as a shock to many, but one DUI, or even two, does not make a person deportable on its own. One may disagree with that, and frankly I do, but the fault lies in the laws and our country’s lax position on drinking and driving, and not in any failure of DHS. I am surprised and disappointed that nobody seems to have considered the possibility that ICE has not been ignoring the law but actually following it. But distrust in our government is at an all time high it seems.
August 6, 2011 at 10:48 am
@ Patty being in the country makes one deportable even if no other law was broken. I know resources are not there to deport every illegal alien but that doesn’t make these situations any more palatable.
Most of the illegal aliens at least in this area, that have murdered or raped someone has had a prior run in with the law. I believe that is what made PWC submit the FOIA request.
I believe the public has a right to know how many criminal illegal aliens are released back into the community and how many crimes they have committed.
August 6, 2011 at 10:57 am
2 things:
1. The FOIA request is nearly a year old I believe.
2. DHS shouldn’t be dumping criminals in our midst.
August 6, 2011 at 2:50 pm
Andy, I don’t believe DHS dumped any criminals in our midst. Unfortunately, a simple DUI is a misdemeanor and not subject to mandatory detention. As much as many people might like them to, ICE can’t lock up everybody just because they want to. They have to have statutory authorization. If you think DUIs should be subject to mandatory detention, then that is something to take up with the Congress, not DHS.
The problem I have with this whole thing is that the tragedy here is far more a result of our nation’s lax attitudes toward irresponsible drinking than it is a result of illegal immigration. The nun is dead because the driver was drunk as a skunk, not because he was undocumented. Had PWC treated his previous DUIs with the seriousness they were afforded, then perhaps this entire tragedy could have been avoided. But that will never happen. Too many rich white Americans drink and drive for us to ever take it seriously. It’s far easier to blame the “illegals” than to accept that societal attitudes toward drinking and driving may have created a culture of carelessness where these types of accidents are inevitable.
August 6, 2011 at 4:06 pm
Patty:
Do people white, black and brown make mistakes and get locked up for having too much to drink and then driving? Sure. Everyone makes mistakes. However, this guy has 3 DUI’s, reckless, no operators and one failure to appear. 1 DUI might be a “simple misdemeanor” but 3? I’m not sure why you would use up effort defending such? He was turned over for deportation after 2 DUI’s. That seems reasonable to me. He was then cut loose.
As for the other, well, if you’re in the country illegally and you get caught – especially during the commission of a crime – you should be deported.
Look, I don’t have much stomach for proactive “sweeps” and “papers please” kind of stuff but if you bring yourself to the attention of the authorities then you’ll have to deal with the consequences – no matter who you are or what you’re up to.
August 6, 2011 at 6:47 pm
But Andy, he wasn’t cut lose. He was in proceedings. Those take time. I think people are jumping to a lot of conclusions without having all of the facts. I’m not defending the person. I’m defending ICE. And Lord knows how much it kills me to do that. My experience with them was that they were a bunch of overly zealous, aggresive idiots who would deport my grandma if they thought they could get away with it. No way did they deliberately let criminal aliens off the hook. I don’t buy it. And yes, when DUIs are misdemeanors they are treated as minor. And they’re misdemeanors until at least the third unless someone gets hurt or dies. That’s a crying shame; I agree with you there. But I’m just saying the fault lies somewhere else on this one, not with ICE. Where’s the anger at the commonwealth’s attorney? It seems he’s the one who really let this guy off easy.
August 6, 2011 at 8:11 pm
The simple question I have in all of this is: Where at least is the printout of the database showing the names, status, etc. etc. etc. Even if the actual case files are at issue, a simple database query could be made available.
Having been a Federal FOIA Officer in the Army, that was always the first step when one of the hit with the “snowflake” (suspense date notice and tracking; 3″x5″ in size), the first thing I did was jump on the network and do a search query across all databases. That at least told me where to start pulling files.
Of course, I also know one of the Federal “loopholes” hid behind is if the file is an active Criminal Justice file, you might get that in the query, and no access. Ok, but at least I have the query to tack on and pass along.
So the question I still ponder is: where at least is the query by name, etc. ICE has one location – one master Census Area Code, a set of Census Blocks to search on.
August 7, 2011 at 10:35 am
I get that proceedings take time but that doesn’t mean they should be let loose on our streets until their cases are heard.
That’s why people are upset.
August 7, 2011 at 11:29 am
BTW the ICE detention center in Farmville Va is open now. Send the illegal aliens there until they are deported.
August 8, 2011 at 7:08 am
Patty, ICE puts criminal aliens back on the street on a daily basis. Do you really want to be on record as saying they do not? Without due respect for someone who lies and supports illegals, you look stupid. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/special/immigration/6557485.html Care to spew anymore lies?
August 8, 2011 at 7:09 am
That should be with all due respect.
August 9, 2011 at 11:54 am
But Maureen, the point I’m trying to make is that ICE isn’t the one who decides who is released pending proceedings and who remains in custody. There are statutory guidelines theyhave to follow, and immigration judges can order their release as well. ICE doesn’t have as much discretion as people seem to think here. They execute laws; they don’t make them. It’s a little like blaming the sheriff for releasing someone on bail.
August 9, 2011 at 1:19 pm
Citizen of Manassas, the article you posted doesn’t say ICE does that here. It says in certain jurisdictions it happens because of a lack of space. I was talking about my personal experience with ICE here. I don’t see how it contradicts what I said. I’m not on the record saying ICE doesn’t do that. I’m on the record for saying in this particular case people are angry and seem to think that ICE deliberately ignored the law and placed dangerous criminals out on the streets at their discretion, and I don’t believe that happened here. I believe these people were released because the law doesn’t treat people convicted of DUIs as dangerous criminals. I understand the anger. I feel the anger. I just think it’s misplaced. In this particular instance, I don’t see it as an immigration issue. I see it as a drinking and driving issue.
And call me stupid all you want; I really don’t care. But if you ever call me a liar again, I will refuse to address your comments. I have expressed my thoughts based on my experiences. It may make me wrong or even stupid, but it certainly doesn’t make me a liar.
August 9, 2011 at 2:58 pm
Patty, If they released criminal illegal aliens in Texas, you can bet they do it here too, and many other places around the Country. ICE is a wreck because their “leadership” love illegals and are trying everthing in their power to make it possible for illegals to stay here. They care very little about the impact illegals have had on the lives of Americans. obama could care less too, since he has twenty four hour protection and has a police escort wherever he goes, so he has no worries about an illegal alien drunk running into his car. It’s a huge disconect between the elite and us.
Just like the illegal alien who went on the rampage in GTS, he too was supposed to have been deported many years ago, but was given a pass by ICE. It is an illegal alien issue, because they are not supposed to be here in the first place, end of story.
August 9, 2011 at 4:06 pm
I guess I find it difficult to imagine ICE having that kind of attitude here because that doesn’t in the least describe my experiences with them. The ICE officers I dealt with were far more likely to step outside of the bounds of the law to keep someone in custody than they ever would to let them out. I’m not saying it’s impossible; nothing is impossible. But I am saying it would completely shock me to see such a change so suddenly.
As to the big picture, I’m not an immigrant apologist. I’m not an advocate of open borders. However, I do think we’d be better off targeting the employers who hire undocumented workers. If there were consequences to the employers, there would be no jobs and the number of people risking so much to come here would decrease significantly. But that won’t happen as long as so many people make so much money off of the cheap labor market.
So in the meantime, yes, I do have a heart for the individual immigrant who is poor and desperate and in many ways a victim of a screwed up system. They aren’t entirely blameless of course, but they are still children of God made in His image and still deserve compassion and respect. I am all for laws that target undesirable behaviors, but I am opposed to laws that target specific groups. Not only are behavior specific laws more humane, in my opinion they are also far more likely to achieve success.
August 10, 2011 at 5:43 am
Patty,
Under Bush, the policy was to target illegal aliens for deporatation and not on businesses. obama switched that to focus on businesses that hire illegals. Well, how many businesses have been targeted? And, of course, both policies are flawed, because not every illegal works, and businesses can simply say they did not realize person x was an illegal.
It’s not ICE officers that are the problem, it’s their “leadership” that’s the problem because they are the ones that drive policy.
You say you are not an illegal alien apologist, then you start to make excusses for them. The only reason why the system is screwed up is because we are not deporting enough illegals. We target many different types of criminals and illegals should be no different, afterall, that’s what they and their supporters say all the time, that they are no different then anyone else.
Look, you are trying to defend a position that simply can’t be defended. They simply is no excuse for not removing illegal aliens from our Country. Illegals deserve no respect, just like any other type of criminal.
August 18, 2011 at 10:11 pm
obama just granted amnesty to an endless number of illegals. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/aug/18/new-dhs-rules-cancel-deportations/
Stick a fork in us, we are done, we have a “leader” who just by-passed Congress and the will of the people in granting this amnesty. Even doing so, after saying a number of times that he would not and could not grant amnesty without the consent of Congress. We are being ruled by a despot.