The Washington Post comes out with the “Challenge Index” every year. It’s based on a simple formula that education columnist Jay Mathews developed. From the WaPo: “The formula is simple: Divide the number of Advanced Placement, International Baccalaureate or other college-level tests a school gave in 2010 by the number of graduating seniors.” If you want some more nitty-gritty there is a discussion here.
The Challenge Index (CI) is not without its problems. For instance, every kid in Osbourn could be enrolled in AP classes and it wouldn’t alter our CI score. It’s the test part that matters. If the kids don’t take the AP test associated with the class (there is no requirement that you take it) it doesn’t count for the purposes of the CI. The second shortcoming that others have noted is that the test costs money. Now, if you’re going to college you want to pay for that test as a passing score gives you college credit – at a lower price. However, there are a bunch of kids that don’t take it – maybe they don’t have the money? I don’t know. Some of our surrounding jurisdictions pay for those tests – as we have in the past but do not now.
The reason that anyone is interested in this is our performance: we are ranked #169 out of 178 area high schools. The scores at Osbourn over the past couple of years are as follows: 169, 153, 70, 161, 76. That data seems to indicate that at least some of this depends on the students that are present in the school but our average is just too low. This isn’t good enough. Councilman Randolph asked our Superintendent, Dr. Pope about our performance and her answer was, more or less, “we disagree with the methodology and we’ve talked to Mr. Mathews about it.”
In all honesty, I agree with Dr. Pope. I think the formula used for this index is lousy but it hardly matters: the forumula is what it is and the WaPo is an important media outlet. What happens when Mr. & Mrs. Smith decide to move to the suburbs with their 2.5 kids? they do school research!!!! When Osbourn comes up at the bottom of the barrel, Manassas is off their list. If you are a Real Estate Agent and you have several properties to handle, are you going to push clients to Manassas?
The schools have go to get on the right page with these things. Between the CI and the ROI study from awhile back we’re in the hole. We may not like them but perception in public policy is nearly reality. The problems with the schools are the single largest problem that our City is facing. We cannot self-eliminate in the battle for residents. There must be a Demand for Excellence in our schools. I don’t believe that money is the problem. We spend plenty per child – the problem is that nobody is saying that current results aren’t good enough. I don’t know that it matters but I’m saying it: I demand better. Now.
June 12, 2011 at 8:19 pm
I completely agree. We need to demand better. And, so long as there’s this WAPO index that people are looking at, then we need to ensure we do well in it. Unfortunately, perception is reality. If we are evaluated on the basis of how many kids take the tests, then we need to do what is necessary to get them to take the tests. The readers don’t know anything about the methodology, they just know the rankings. If that’s the game then we’d better play it unless we can change it.
June 13, 2011 at 11:43 am
The AP Courses have historically at OHS seen about 50% of the kids taking the test, 50% not taking it – even when MCPS paid for the test. I made this same comment in front of City Council last month. I again say it is not the issue of payment – it is the point the VALUE of getting a 4 or 5 on the AP so it transfers and is accepted by a College/University. That $89 dollars to this parent paid off with not paying $1100 for a GMU 3 semester hour course…actually, a couple of courses. Plus, since the AP test may also allow a “jump” since it can be used to meet a course prerequisite, the college child may also graduate earlier. I paid 8% of the tuition for a GMU course, and getting more than double my value back when only one of the two I paid for qualified against two or three others (forget the actual number now).
If a parent cannot afford it – the Education Foundation should step in and pay for it. That is a value to the Foundation as they can also use it as part of their marketing for donations.
How’s this for an idea: The teachers at OHS that have the AP Courses sit together and make a handout for parents….mailed to the parents since as many of us know who put kids through MCPS, often the handouts given in class do not show up. Also give it out in class. That handout could show how the $89 and a 4 or 5 score on the AP translates to tuition for a 3SH course at GMU, VT, W&M….basically, the colleges/univerisities the graduates go to. Shoot, even toss in NOVA CC since some kids are starting there and gathering the General Studies before jumping to four years.
There’s the bang for the buck!!!
June 13, 2011 at 12:55 pm
FWIW: At one point I asked how much it would cost to pay for the tests for all comers and the estimate was $50k.
June 13, 2011 at 2:34 pm
Here’s a tidbit I forgot and was reminded of:
Of those kids who do not test, just take the class – some of them are taking the AP courses solely, solely, solely to raise their GPA. Passing the AP Course has a higher weighted average in the MCPS calculation of GPA. Some of the kids do it so they can have a 4.0 GPA. Would be interesting to get a statistic from OHS on how many are doing that and compare to how many test, etc etc.
Speaking of statistics: Nobody may like the WaPo formula, but stats are stats and the formula is a valid method.
June 13, 2011 at 4:16 pm
Real estate: It’s all about the schools – article by Jay Mathew in
today’s WaPo Metro section (B2).
“Since most Washington area high schools meet my criteria and are
celebrated on the national list, most people looking for houses don’t
need to worry. That goes for home buyers in Northern Virginia,
except Manassas…”. Ouch.
June 13, 2011 at 5:06 pm
Andy, thanks for this post. Very eye opening and concerning.
I will ask the opinion of some of the school board members about this article as I am heading over to the Osbourn graduation in a few minutes.
June 13, 2011 at 5:17 pm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/class-stuggle
June 13, 2011 at 5:26 pm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/class-struggle
June 13, 2011 at 10:07 pm
Just another black eye for the City. If we were a battered wife, I say we were pretty close to be placed on life support after another beat down by our lousy husband.
It’s pretty simple to figure out, because we have a large number of illegals, more keep moving into the City, because they hear from family members or friend how easy it is to rip the system off. At this point, there is not much to attract non illegals into the City. But, hey I heard we might get another visit from the fence painters so all is not lost.
June 14, 2011 at 6:17 am
Here’s the quote Steve is referring to:
“I designed the Challenge Index to alert the 90 percent of U.S. schools not on the national list that they need to improve their college prep programs. Since 75 percent of Washington-area schools meet my criteria and are celebrated on the national list, most people looking for houses here don’t need to worry. That goes for home buyers everywhere in Northern Virginia except Manassas and Fredericksburg, and in all the Maryland suburbs except Prince George’s County.”
June 14, 2011 at 7:21 am
Can we rebrand our City as the PG County of Virginia? They have the Redskins, we did have the two day store. We both have a large number of illegals. We both feel like the unwanted step-children that take a back seat to our much larger siblings(Fairfax and Montgomery Counties). At one time, both places were much better areas to live in. I think it’s a perfect fit.
June 14, 2011 at 9:47 am
I would be in favor of footing the cost of the testing, as long as the money, came from a decrease in the pay for the school adminstration members, or came from the ESL budget. Otherwise, we should not add to an already bloated school budget.
June 14, 2011 at 9:55 am
I believe that they should be able to find $50k in existing money….
June 14, 2011 at 1:53 pm
COM, since you always to like to relate issues to the illegals, as the old TV saying goes, “Riddle me this, Batman…”
How come a little city to the north and west, with a high-end east side and lower-end west side, with most likely higher number of ethnic groups, with water leaking all over the place, with a Rec Center a financial drain, with most likely one of the highest RE tax rates around…..how do they beat us on the Challenge Index and graduate a Senior Class with 80% going on to college and over 50% achieving the Advanced Dipoloma?
What makes Manassas Park different in succeeding where Manassas is slipping?
http://www2.insidenova.com/news/2011/jun/11/manassas-park-cougars-go-out-bang-ar-1102250/
June 14, 2011 at 1:58 pm
Someone is setting expectations very high and then making it happen.
June 14, 2011 at 5:45 pm
Raymond
All I know is that the last reported graduation rate for the HS was 75%(nothing to be proud of, of course) and ESL student graduation rate(mostly illegals) was half of that. Maybe we have worse illegals, I’m not sure. Or as Andy said, maybe the bar is not raised as high for our students.
June 14, 2011 at 11:00 pm
Thanks for this post Andy. As was stated earlier, one’s perception is one’s reality, and if that perception/reality is that MCPS is not rigorous enough or otherwise deficient in some way, why move a family here? One of the major factors my parents chose Manassas to relocate to thirty years ago was their perception of how good the schools were. With five kids in tow, Manassas won out over both Prince William and Fairfax. Now, the only AP offering here at the time was in English, and that only in senior year. One of my brothers and both sisters made the cut, and my youngest brother bypassed Osbourn completely and was in the first graduating class at Thomas Jefferson. (you know, that far away school that the city fathers decided long ago wasn’t worth the investment. I think they were still debating Mr. Robinson’s advice that the future was in ‘plastics’…) All ended up graduating from VA Tech with assorted engineering, chemistry, and teaching degrees. All owed it to the education received at our own Osbourn HS. ( well I guess you could call it Osbourn 2.0, the one I saw carted off to the landfill a few years ago)
In tonight’s school board meeting, a request to partner with a group called Virginia Advanced Study Strategies was approved. I think it’s a great step in the right direction for upping our rating in the rankings we’re discussing, but I don’t think it goes far enough with incentives, and I believe it will do more than ‘make us look good’, it will produce students with a better chance at a college education and said education would cost them less. In my book, these are plusses.
This group is funded by both the US Army and Navy, and also various business entities to spur an increase in the amount of high school graduates that go on to attain degrees in math and science. The program seems to have a decent track record in improving test results for other HS students in VA. The financial incentives include paying half of the cost of an AP test, a stipend to teachers of AP math, science, (and I think English classes), and among other things, for them to be taught strategies on preparing kids for AP, student recruitment , supplies and equipment, and helping students through once they begin AP. I think I remember there also being a one hundred dollar bonus to students who achieve a qualifying score ( a 3,4,or 5) on the tests. All this and it doesn’t cost the MCPS anything, I’m told.
So how about this: Lets create stronger incentives to ride along with our involvement in this program. Cause after all, money talks. Is $500 enough of an incentive to a teacher to do the extra work? I’ll bet it is for the most dedicated teachers of AP, but not enough for others. They’re the ones that will make or break the whole project, so I’d offer more if some/all of their students do better than ‘qualify’ with their scores, but nail that top score of 5. $100 for the kids who ‘qualify’ on the scores? Nah, how about we give five times that for the top score? I’d then further propose doubling that figure if a student gets more than one of those ‘5’ ratings. If only half of our AP students take the test at all, whether MC taxpayers foot the bill for the test or not, and taking the test (pass or not) is what improves columnist’s ratings, then get more kids taking the test as soon as possible. And dangle a large carrot to entice them to do so. (as if paying $85 to skip paying tuition rates for a three credit hour class isn’t enough) Action like this would show we’ll put our money where our mouth is, and if it costs a few dollars more I would not propose we take it out of administrator’s hides. (some citizens of Manassas say the silliest things) If this community wants something bad enough, there will be a way to make it happen.
Whats wrong with this picture? Well, it doesn’t include AP social studies, fine arts, and whatever else is offered at AP levels. Though that may not seem ‘fair’ to some, but haven’t we all told our kids that life isn’t fair? This is to designed solely to focus on math and science (I guess english got thrown in because for gods sake a kid should be able to write well when he gets to college- full disclosure – I don’t write all that well and actually didn’t get into AP english twenty five years ago, but I was in good company, Andy weren’t we in the same english clas? ) To folks who take AP French or AP Art or AP Orchestra, I love ya for it, and wish you the best, but if you want to provide yourself with a good standard of living in the future, most of the good jobs are going to require math and science. The stereotype of the ‘starving artist’ didn’t just rise out of the sea on a bed of foam. For teachers of fine arts that won’t have the opportunity to bag a bonus for producing students who score 5’s on AP tests, again I love ya for what you do, and I value it, just not as much as the math and science stuff. For students in AP classes that aren’t math or science? Um, maybe it’s time to consider a switch? Or find another program that doesn’t cost the city anything that provides these types of incentives for your class types. I’ll be in your corner then, I promise.
That’s all I’ve got to say on this one for now, except thanks to the board for going along with this program. Lets see how it works out, and I’ll take all the good, bad, and the ugly that comes along with it. We must keep trying new things, and I’ll bet that if Jay Mathews and his ratings are around for a while longer, he’ll have a lot to say about a school system that goes from ranking near the bottom one year to near the top in short order. We’ve got an opportunity, lets make the best of it. Education Forward, anyone?
June 15, 2011 at 6:41 am
@Ed: We were in the same English class (I well remember your Beowolf poem). I think at the time OHS had AP History and English. We also had a form of dual-study mathematics with NOVA – I took a stats course with them that all but killed me but I managed a passing grade…
I’m encouraged that the Board is trying new things but, as you rightly point out, it’s a pretty narrowly-focused initiative. That drive for excellence has to permeate the organization. Certainly there are staff – dedicated staff – in our system that desperately want to make this work (as do I) – but it lacks a central focus. Paying AP bonuses won’t help the 20% of rising 9th graders that read at a 4th grade level that I’ve heard is the current situation. A startling number if true…
The Ed. Forward committee awaits some report or communication from our members on the School Board.
June 15, 2011 at 8:11 am
The Answer to the Riddle of Manassas Park:
First, the Supervisor is directly responsible to the School Board and the School Board is directly responsible to City’s Governing Body. The Governing Body (as they call their City Council) directly appoints the School Board. Yes, there is a precentage allocation (like ours) out of the General Fund for the School Budget – but the Governing Body has the last say.
There is no pussyfooting around with one elected body and another elected body “talk” and “make requests”. There is direct command and control, with the decision made by the Governing Body to have a Super that will set the challenge. “Seperate but Equal” in Brown vs. Board of Education refers to equality in education, not governance and administration.
That intentionality and direct control is why MP beats the pants of of us.
June 15, 2011 at 8:15 am
@Ed, thanks for the notes on the Virginia Advanced Studies Strategies….funny, the descriptor sounds like some intiative called “Manassas Next” written by some computer geek 😉 Also sounds like a descriptor of what Mayfield Middle was supposed to be.
June 15, 2011 at 8:30 am
FWIW, it would take a referendum to go back to the appointed model.
June 15, 2011 at 12:15 pm
http://www.schooldigger.com/go/VA/districtrank.aspx
Another source of comparative data.
June 15, 2011 at 1:55 pm
I was not fully aware of the statistic that one out of five eigth graders is reading at fourth grade levels. Sure would be nice to read that half or better of our kids in eigth grade read at tenth or twelfth grade levels. If I was the new principal of Osbourn and was being handed this crap sandwich to eat in the fall, I might suggest that they not be sent to high school until they are ready. What will that take? Are these students just poor readers or do they get shuffled out of Metz with grades that are actually failing? Did it start earlier than that? Could be, which doesn’t speak well for the system as a whole.
June 16, 2011 at 9:35 am
Governor signed the “Top Jobs” Education Reform legislation….note the third paragraph, second bullet where Manassas is mentioned. Shall be interesting to see how this evolves, since the whole Act reads like “challenge the student” – with the focus on Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics (STEM).
http://www.governor.virginia.gov/News/viewRelease.cfm?id=794
June 16, 2011 at 9:50 am
@Andy
Yup, know it would take a voter referendum. FWIW, look at the last several local election results for School Board, and there is less and less folks voting. For instance, in the last election of City Council and School Board, Council members had 1200+ votes, School Board folks got 600-800. Looking back futher, you will see the trend forming where when it comes to the Board, only about half the people showing up are voting when it comes to School, and odds are, those are the people with kids in the school vs. those (like me) who have kids out of MCPS and still cast vote. Now THAT would be an interesting piece of research to see….
I know it may be viewed I am on a tirade about our Board, but I also watch not only PWC BOCS vs PWCS Board action, but looked at others. Some places where there is a setup like ours with two elected, it works because there is more face-to-face and we collect the money, and remind you we control the share. Others, it is becoming more of an issue where one is less responsive to the needs of the whole. My point is less and less information is coming out of MCPS Board unless you attend the meetings – most notably Education Forward – no minutes, no presentations. Elected officials present means minutes or work product available for public review – and if not posted online, a location where this information is available for review (think school policies available online and in libraries). And given how much City money is expended for information systems and websites….well, I won’t go there.
July 3, 2011 at 9:29 pm
I have been away for a while but after reading Andy’s posting here and the comments I had to take a moment and post something.
I want to thank Andy for saying publicly what many have been fearing. It takes courage for a person in your position to express open and public dissatisfaction with any City service particularly one that consumes a majority of our revenue. The City of Manassas public schools are a failure and that fact has a profound ripple effect throughout the community. You nailed it by calling it the biggest issue our city faces. It needed to be said and i’m glad you said it. As I mentioned in an earlier posting, the first step is to admit that there is a problem.
As you pointed out, there does not seem to be a per-pupil spending problem either. My fear is that a pervasive culture of banal mediocrity among senior education staff (including Dr. Pope) is more to blame. As in any organization, its success will in large part be determined by the example set by your boss and your boss’s boss. When they dont care then why should I?
History is replete with examples of small school districts that have achieved amazing results even with challenging student populations. In each example a necessary ingredient was a culture of inspiration with rigourous academic standards. The leadreship set the tone for such an environment. Sadly, it seems the City of Manassas is currently not on track to win such accolades.
Please take the next step and gather support among Council members for action. I suggest to you that the best way to bring about a change in culture in a large organization such as MCPS is to change it’s leader.
I hear Ms. Rhee is looking for a job these days.