School Boards accross the Commonwealth are staffed in one of two ways: appointed or elected. In the case of Manassas, we have an elected School Board. It was originally appointed but several years ago (not sure exactly when) a referendum was held and we switched to the current elected system (BTW, it’s my understanding we would have to do the same to switch back).
Regardless of which system one employees, the other system always seems better…:) Having only ever worked with an elected board, I can’t tell you which works better. I think, as always, it depends on who is on that board and how hard they work. Same is true of Council or a Board of Supervisors.
I was, however, very surprised to see this little doozy out of Fairfax. I’m not a proponent of state-level electeds fooling around in local business – they need to stick to their own sphere – but it seems like they have had enough over there….
March 14, 2011 at 11:38 am
The issue we have currently with the school board is they waste money, do not seem concerned with the failing schools(I know at least one member used to visit your site from time to time, but where is the concern?), and ongoing issues of the school system. The must be happy with Pope, again, because if they were not, they would have spoken out on the issue. Oh, and the funding agreement has to go asap.
March 14, 2011 at 11:47 am
http://acluva.org/315/why-we-have-and-should-have-elected-school-boards-in-virginia/
Observations:
– The link gives some of the history of elected school boards in Virginia.
– I was on council when we appointed school boards and had public interviews,
like we still have when filling an unexpired term on council. The interest
was often high with standing room only in the chamber and foyer.
– In 1992, citizens were allowed to petition for the right to elect school boards
and Manassas voters approved the measure as did most jurisdictions.
(Manassas Park is one of the few communities that opted to keep an
appointed school board).
March 14, 2011 at 11:58 am
http://www.sedsi.org/history/2009/proceedings/proc/p081010010.pdf
FYI: More information on this issue.
March 14, 2011 at 8:56 pm
I like the elected system better. At least there is a chance of getting rid of those that aren’t performing.
With appointed boards the public doesn’t really have a say who represents them. Just like when they fill an unexpired term on council.
March 15, 2011 at 7:37 am
Too many cooks in the kitchen, turns into a Marx Brothers/ 3 Stooges movie. They went that way The City Council should be held accountable for how it spends the budget, not just half of it. And, they should be held accountable for who they appoint.
The reality of the situation now is that you have a bizarre bicameral city council where we have two councils running the city, both have become dysfunctional and who’s on what get’s a little hard to follow, which the cynical might think is the intention of the stars of the show.
March 15, 2011 at 7:42 am
My directional arrows going in opposite directions following “way” were evidently misread as tags in previous post. You all get the idea?
March 15, 2011 at 8:23 am
I’m with Maureen, elect people to the school board. But I’d also like to see the meet-the-candidates school board forums promoted more to the general public in advance of the May 2012 election — I just happened upon the ones for the last election cycle. Are there committees of citizens that report to the school board, like there are committees that report to the council?
March 15, 2011 at 8:46 am
Cindy:
I don’t believe that the schools really have a citizen-committee deal like the Council does. They certainly have board committees but nothing like the Historic Resources Board, that I’m aware of any anyways…
@Doug: really? It’s a conspiracy? What’s the goal?
March 15, 2011 at 9:50 am
Gee Andy how would I know? I’m not a cynical guy.
March 15, 2011 at 9:56 am
I see…
March 15, 2011 at 10:44 am
Andy,
You do realize that it is a reasonable to question the bifurcated management of the City’s revenue when one half of the spending of that revenue seems to be underperforming? Yes, you can justifiably claim that ultimately the citizens of Manassas are to blame for the system since they voted for it, but doesn’t elected position and the leadership responsibilities that goes with it require that you identify the problems that need to be fixed and get on with it. Maybe you think the current system can be made to work, I don’t think it can, but I’m more than willing to hear how it can be made more responsive and less top down. This isn’t a pointed criticism directed at you personally, this is a criticism and an expression of impatience with a system which is failing a lot of kids and the community at large. If you can make the current system work, I’ll be one of the first to congratulate you and applaud your success, but I tend to think it is too dysfunctional with too many vested interests to admit or fix what is wrong.
March 15, 2011 at 12:14 pm
Folks- See below. If you have issues with the schools, talk to the School Board. If you don’t like the answers, elect someone else to the Board. They have the authority not Andy. The Council provides local revenue to meet state regulations. Thats it. See #5:
§ 22.1-79. Powers and duties
A school board shall:
1. See that the school laws are properly explained, enforced and observed;
2. Secure, by visitation or otherwise, as full information as possible about the conduct of the public schools in the school division and take care that they are conducted according to law and with the utmost efficiency;
3. Care for, manage and control the property of the school division and provide for the erecting, furnishing, equipping, and noninstructional operating of necessary school buildings and appurtenances and the maintenance thereof by purchase, lease, or other contracts;
4. Provide for the consolidation of schools or redistricting of school boundaries or adopt pupil assignment plans whenever such procedure will contribute to the efficiency of the school division;
5. Insofar as not inconsistent with state statutes and regulations of the Board of Education, operate and maintain the public schools in the school division and determine the length of the school term, the studies to be pursued, the methods of teaching and the government to be employed in the schools;
6. In instances in which no grievance procedure has been adopted prior to January 1, 1991, establish and administer by July 1, 1992, a grievance procedure for all school board employees, except the division superintendent and those employees covered under the provisions of Article 2 (§ 22.1-293 et seq.) and Article 3 (§ 22.1-306 et seq.) of Chapter 15 of this title, who have completed such probationary period as may be required by the school board, not to exceed 18 months. The grievance procedure shall afford a timely and fair method of the resolution of disputes arising between the school board and such employees regarding dismissal, suspension, or other disciplinary actions and shall be consistent with the provisions of the Board of Education’s procedures for adjusting grievances except that there shall be no right to a hearing before a fact-finding panel;
7. Perform such other duties as shall be prescribed by the Board of Education or as are imposed by law;
8. Obtain public comment through a public hearing not less than 10 days after reasonable notice to the public in a newspaper of general circulation in the school division prior to providing (i) for the consolidation of schools; (ii) the transfer from the public school system of the administration of all instructional services for any public school classroom or all noninstructional services in the school division pursuant to a contract with any private entity or organization; or (iii) in school divisions having 15,000 pupils or more in average daily membership, for redistricting of school boundaries or adopting any pupil assignment plan affecting the assignment of 15 percent or more of the pupils in average daily membership in the affected school. Such public hearing may be held at the same time and place as the meeting of the school board at which the proposed action is taken if the public hearing is held before the action is taken. If a public hearing has been held prior to the effective date of this provision on a proposed consolidation, redistricting or pupil assignment plan which is to be implemented after the effective date of this provision, an additional public hearing shall not be required;
9. (Expires July 1, 2010) At least annually, survey the school division to identify critical shortages of teachers and administrative personnel by subject matter, and report such critical shortages to the Superintendent of Public Instruction and to the Virginia Retirement System; however, the school board may request the division superintendent to conduct such survey and submit such report to the school board, the Superintendent, and the Virginia Retirement System; and
10. Ensure that the public schools within the school division are registered with the Department of State Police to receive from the State Police electronic notice of the registration or reregistration of any sex offender within that school division pursuant to § 9.1-914.
March 15, 2011 at 3:03 pm
I’m not blaming Andy for the schools, I’m simply suggesting they revisit the issue of whether the school board should be elected or selected as one aspect of examining how to fix a system which is failing. I know when I moved here over ten years ago I did not think the schools were failing, they are now.
March 15, 2011 at 4:24 pm
Steve, many thanks for the posting of the historical timeline….and it gives one pause.
We became a City in 1975 and had an appointed School Board until 1992 after the ACLU got done bombarding the State…except for Manassas Park that took a stand.
So that means this appointed School Board existed for 17 years and transitioned us from being part of PWCS to MCPS. Most notably, through the “tuition period” of January 1, 1976 through June 30, 1977 when the City was paying the County 11.6% of the PWCS Operating and Debt Service Cost, and because of an integrated Finance Department, every time to include Federal funding was accounted for. And on top of that, complied with 14 paragraphs of the April 12, 1976, Shared Services Agreement with the County signed by then Mayor Harry Parrish. And that same period was purchasing schools from the County and finding sites and working as an intergrated CIP in the City to build new schools, and identify major and minor repairs as part of that consolidated CIP.
And if people were filling the Council Chamber and out into the hall of our current City Hall, they must have filled the street when we were still in the old Town Hall!
Since 1992 it has been elected board – I wonder how many canditates have made a run … to include the current incumbants who have been on the board for decades…every four years vs. the number of extremely interested volunteers who showed up.
March 15, 2011 at 4:40 pm
Section 18, Paragraphs 18W and 18X (extracted below) of our City Charter refers to both the School Division and the School Board. And may I remind all that a City Charter granted by the General Assembly deliniating its sovereign powers may take precedence over such things as the ACLU action of 1992 – that is how Manassas Park took its stand.
“W.
Schools. To establish, operate, and maintain a public school system as a separate school division in accordance with the provisions of the Code of Virginia, applicable thereto.
X.
School board. The School Board of the City of Manassas shall be composed of seven members, who shall be chosen by the council from qualified voters and residents of the city of Manassas to serve a term of three years. Any vacancy on the school board occurring by reason of death, resignation or removal shall be filled by the council for the unexpired term. A member whose term has expired shall continue to serve until his successor has been appointed and qualified. Those members appointed prior to the adoption of this charter amendment shall continue to serve for the term to which they were originally appointed. The two additional members appointed to the board pursuant to this charter amendment shall serve initial terms of one and two years as designated in their appointment by council. (Acts 1980, ch. 68, § 1; Acts 1990, ch. 16, § 1) ”
And if you read through Virginia Code Section 22.1-28 et. al. 22.1-57.5, there is no mention of a mandate to have shifted to an elected school board in 1992.
March 15, 2011 at 8:40 pm
If the council appointed someone you may NEVER be able to get rid o a bad apple. With an elected school board you have the ability to dump the chump in four years.
Hold the council accountable for the actions of the school board? That’s just a dream, even if they appoint them.
March 15, 2011 at 8:42 pm
I do believe however that the council should revisit the revenue sharing agreement they have with the school board.
March 15, 2011 at 9:02 pm
Who watched last nights meeting? Just wonderin’…
March 15, 2011 at 9:51 pm
I did. The police chief’s presentation of P2C was welcome. I live in a non HOA area. A volunteer from our neighborhood watch used to go to the police department, pick up the calls for service monthly report and then take it to another volunteer to key it into an e-mail to send out to watch members. I’ve been to HOA meetings in at least three other neighborhoods where a police officer makes a report at the monthly HOA meeting.
Now, with P2C, anyone can just go on the city website, go to police dept, click on Police-2-Citizen and see a complete listing of calls for service for any street in their neighborhood. Immediately. Whenever.
Now, if we would just lock our house and car doors and cut off the “opportunity” part of the crime triangle (target – desire – opportunity).
March 15, 2011 at 10:00 pm
And thank you for voting to reinforce the dam.
For those interested, there is a “Public Access to Public Places – 2011 Conservation Forum” on Monday, March 21, 7:00 pm at the McCoart Government Center, One County Complex, Woodbridge. Lake Manassas will be part of the discussion.
http://pwconserve.wordpress.com/2011/03/14/public-access-to-public-places-2011-conservation-forum/
I’m not in favor of opening the lake to public access … but I do like forums where people can talk about issues like this and hear other viewpoints.
March 16, 2011 at 6:33 am
Cindy,
Why are you not in favor of opening the lake, but want to open up another basketball court for illegals?
And, while you list your unfounded fears, please provide examples of where Cities have had their water sources ruined by fishing and boating. Thanks.
Are you saying only cars and houses that are unlocked are the only ones targeted for crime? Really?
March 16, 2011 at 10:33 am
Also has the City ever had an issue with fishing and boating on the lake? All those years of open access did not result in any accident that caused damage to the water system that Im aware of.
March 16, 2011 at 10:40 am
Maureen,
If the person is appointed by the Council vs. elected, there are procedures in place in our City Code to “dump the chump” (as you say) for non-performance much faster than waiting four years for an election. I am appointed by the Council to a local Commission and Board.
My application is first reviewed in the Clerk’s Office, then handed to the Committee. An interview is set up, and three Council Members then conduct it. If I am approved by the Committee, the application is then taken to Council where, in a closed session, my appointment is discussed and vote taken. A report of appointment is then made.
Once appointed, and when serving in the capacity of what I am appointed for, my conduct is subject to City Ethics Policy, and when serving, also covered by the Risk Management Insurance. Also, every six months, the Chair/Secretary of this local Board and Committee submit a report as to my attendance, and if there are any specific issues to my conduct, they are reported also. If I am failing in my duties, or if I violate the Policy or do something putting the City at risk, the Council then can yank my appointment.
There is more checks and balances in a local appointment then in the election process. There are State Code items addressing elected officials, but there are a lot of hurdles there to leap to include a court review. As I said, easier to “dump the chump” if local appointment.
March 16, 2011 at 10:56 am
CrazyInLove,
Talk to the Board? This is the same Board that since that report has come out has said NOTHING publicly about it. Dr. Pope appeared before the Council right after giving a glowing update of student achievement – and when asked about the report said she has not read it. If I was the Super of the Schools, I would have been on line grabbing that report right after the WaPo hit my driveway!
The Council also asked her to report back to them. She may have submitted something in writing, but her failure is also not returning ASAP (such as Monday night), and presented a report. Now, I shall also in part agree with Maureen’s statement the Council should have also made dang sure she was back in front of the camera, as it gives the appearance that right after issuing a direction, Dr. Pope ignores it.
There are many of us in the City frustrated, angry or just fed-up with what has occured the last couple of years. Watch the on-line replay of Council from Monday for the Citizens’ Time portion….listen to the father of an autistic child report on the abuse received while in school, and the subsequent nonsense investigation by the School. My anger level grew as he spoke, and I watched Council Members faces and several were shocked! Continue watching for the next gentleman who also addressed issues about the children with disabilities.
Every property owner in this City has a stake in those schools – from our tax dollars paying for them, to attracting new families and businesses. 17 years ago, the high quality of the schools is what made up our mind to reside in this City. The last six years or so have had FAR FAR FAR to much lack of leadership being shown by those elected and running MCPS. Yes, there are sterling students going on to great things, and that speaks to some of the great teachers and parents we have.
By the way, your reference to #5 of that portion of the Code – don’t catch your point other than they are supposed to be running a School. And one other thing in the VA Code – the City Council has the authority to set the School District Boundries, and subsequently, the individual school boundry – not the Board (VA Code 22-1.49)
March 16, 2011 at 12:37 pm
How many of you have been in front of the SB to demand change?
March 16, 2011 at 1:45 pm
Doug Brown said:
“you can justifiably claim that ultimately the citizens of Manassas are to blame for the system since they voted for it”
I would say that the citizens who voted for it 17 years ago weren’t voting to have a school system that performs as does ours now. My belief is that those who are arguing FOR an appointed school board are in general saying that the move to an elected school board back then is major factor in why our schools have declined to their current state, by the lack of perceived accountability.
And as Raymond so succinctly points out, it is FAR quicker to remove someone from a City Council appointment than it is to wait through a 4 year political process to “throw the bums out”. I know I personally in my years in the City have not cast a single vote in the school board elections, as I a) had no child in the system and b) didn’t know enough about one candidate versus another to make an informed choice.
But then again…If we were to go back to an appointed school board, are we not likely to end up with a board that “looks like” our City Council? Not saying that’s a good or a bad thing in particular, but do we lose something if we go that way?
March 16, 2011 at 11:53 pm
Raymond,
Nice posts.
March 17, 2011 at 12:35 pm
Ray-
I know exactly how the council appoints members to a board, as I was on the advisory board to Social Services for 8 years. (They changed the name right before my term expired) You make it sound easy to get rid of a school board member if the council appoints them. When was the last time the council got rid of any board member? Andy do you know? I bet they haven’t.
Just because the public doesn’t think a school board member is doing a good job and they should be let go, doesn’t mean that the council will agree.
I believe someone said it earlier, the council will appoint people that they agree with. That doesn’t mean that we the public will agree with the way they think. If that is the case, then we would still have to wait four years and then we would have to get rid of the council members.
The tax paying citizens of Manassas should be the ones to decide who their school board members are, not seven council members.
March 17, 2011 at 12:59 pm
DavidB- It has been your choice to not vote for school board members, and I am sorry that you chose not to inform yourself about the candidates for you still pay for their decisions even though you don’t have kids in the schools.
Does anyone honestly think that the city council will get rid of a school board that the public doesn’t like? I seriously doubt it. Yes the tools are in place to make it happen, but really, it is human nature to give people a second and third chance.
I’ve lived in the city for 25 years and I for one am not willing to give up control over a situation that I have some modicum of control of the outcome.
There must have been some problem with having the council appoint the school board or they wouldn’t have changed it.
March 17, 2011 at 2:06 pm
Maureen, as to the Council removing non-performing appointments, I personally know of two in the last year from the Manassas-Manassas Park Disability Services Board as I sit on that Board. We discussed it at the meetings, the individuals were notified by the Board Chair in writing, and after not hearing, the DSB requested they be removed and they were. The system works if the Board has integretity to take action.
As to why the shift in ’92, I’ll leave it up to our resident historian Steve Randolph as he was there and on the City Council at the time. Me? I still say it was in response to action by the ACLU only….especially after reading the page linked by Steve and the langauge used in their history statement.
March 17, 2011 at 3:18 pm
Ray, The ACLU didn’t demand Virginia have elected school boards,
but that the Commonwealth allow elected school boards if
the majority of voters in a jurisdiction, via an election, so chose.
(As noted, Manassas Park, when given the choice, selected to keep
an appointed board).
http://www.allhookedup.com/gop/pages/esb_release.html
Charlottesville, some time after us, also went to elected boards.
The effort there, like in Manassas , was apparently wide spread
and bipartisan.
March 17, 2011 at 8:15 pm
Maureen:
Having been at the sharp end of this particular stick for the past 5 years, I can tell you that people get removed or not reappointed to their post with some regularity. We don’t talk a lot about it – it’s a personnel matter that we only discuss in closed session. There isn’t any reason to humiliate people. It isn’t ever easy but it does happen. I can’t imagine that it would be any different if we had an appointed school board.
However, I’ve never had the task of appointing a school board member so I can’t tell you if it would be any easier or harder but I would speculate that “popularity” might not be at the top of the list of criteria for appointment. I well remember back in the day that some folks who were widely regarded as very effective school board members were not always the most popular….
March 17, 2011 at 10:24 pm
Steve, as always, thanks for history lessons.
March 18, 2011 at 4:32 am
Andy thank you that’s good to hear I’ll still take my chances with the voters though.
March 18, 2011 at 1:24 pm
@Maureen:
“DavidB- It has been your choice to not vote for school board members, and I am sorry that you chose not to inform yourself about the candidates for you still pay for their decisions even though you don’t have kids in the schools.”
I guess that’s a philosophical disagreement. As not having had a child in the City schools, nor ever having had a plan to have children in the City schools, I felt I had no business “voting” for School Board members.
March 18, 2011 at 10:40 pm
Voting in this City – people like to toss that around. In the reality, it is a minority voting for the majority.
Take a look at the 2010 election for Council & School Board. We have somewhere around 18,000 registered voters in the City. For Council, about 1,200 showed up to vote (roughly 6% of the population). When it came to School Board, two canditates got over 1000…the others average around 600 or so. Council at least faired a little better.