Just a heads up: the City manager will present his proposed budget at the next Council meeting on the 28th. The managers budget is the second big waypoint in the budgeting process with the 5-year forecast (passed last fall) being the first. The Council will then take that as a starting point and work forward from there. It’s an otherwise normal Council meeting so Larry will probably present his work some time after 6:00, just a guess though. Check the agenda when it comes out Friday.
The next big date after that is the 14th of March which is a Public Hearing on the budget. That’ll start at 7:30.
The only other budget news I’ve heard is that PWC looks to increase their average tax bill by about 4%. That’s not final but that’s what I saw in the MJM. The GA is in the home stretch and should be done shortly.
Last year I agonized over how much budget stuff to post. This year I’m not going to sweat it. I know it’s not terribly popular but I’ll post as much as I can stand. If you’re interested, please come out and make your opinion known on the 28th or the 14th. It would be cool to have more than 3 people in Council Chambers when the budget is presented.
February 21, 2011 at 10:15 am
Don’t underestimate the number of people who watch from home. Can’t wait to try the “streaming live” feature on the City website for the first time.
Thanks for delivering as much information as you can via your blog.
February 21, 2011 at 11:09 am
Postings on the budget will be important this year, as in any years. This venue is one way for interested folks to express and debate, with your moderation of course 🙂
School Board Public Hearing on their budget is tomorrow night in City Hall at 7:00 p.m. And since to find it on the MCPS is such a pain in the tush, the link is below:
http://manassascity.va.schoolwebpages.com/education/components/scrapbook/default.php?sectiondetailid=14835&
By the way, I am the only one that thinks it is interesting if you go to the City’s Website, and try to link over to the MCPS one, the Schools are not listed as either “Departments” or “Governments”?
In one wicked mindset, it would feed the notion the MCPS is not a government entity. Seperate and not equal….so to speak 😉
February 21, 2011 at 12:03 pm
I have always been surprised at the number of people who watch the meetings on TV.
February 21, 2011 at 2:12 pm
The direction, cinematography and acting are terrific. I especially like the special effects. Today Manassas, tomorrow Hollywood! Then Bollywood!!Watch out Housewives of NJ!!!
Actually its a fine service that allows us to watch the meetings on TV. Sometimes there’s just too few hours in the day to run down to city hall after an hour commute home. Andy, thanks for the heads up on these upcoming important meetings.
The unity demonstrated by the Council in response to the unfortunate recent incidents in GTS was impressive. I hope the Council can maintain similar unity as it now tackles the budget.
February 21, 2011 at 3:35 pm
With regards to School Budget…and the points in earlier postings about the Reduced/Free Lunches, and interesting article on MSN about what is happening around the Nation (and Virginia is mentioned) with regards to this program:
Titled: “Schools cut lunch options for kids who struggle to pay”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41631002/ns/health-diet_and_nutrition
February 21, 2011 at 5:04 pm
I watch on T.V. quite a bit.
February 21, 2011 at 7:31 pm
The little excerpt below from the article Raymond cites is a great little example of the nanny state thinking run amuck. The economic incentive in the program is not to first identify and solve the problem but to grow the program.
“While there’s no hard data on how many eligible families aren’t enrolled, those factors mean “the NSLP faces the constant challenge of encouraging eligible households to apply for participation,” the report said.
If a school can get more eligible children enrolled, its direct costs go down because the federal government picks up more of the bill. Slenderized lunches, administrators say, are simply part of an aggressive campaign to make families aware of the benefit and get them signed up.”
February 21, 2011 at 8:04 pm
@Doug,
It’s just disgusting how they want people to become hooked on Government handouts. Do these people not think some may have too much pride to join the program, or just want to make it on their own?
@Andy,
Cut, cut and cut the school budget, give some of the savings to the Police Department. Once the school system starts to educate our students, the graduation rate and test scores start to increase, then we can revisit their budget.
February 22, 2011 at 11:34 am
Look at the county’s graph of the cost per student over the local jurisdictions, a comparision not included in the city school’s budget presentation:
http://financialservices.departments.pwcs.edu/modules/groups/homepagefiles/cms/1007128/File/Budget/2012/FY2012ProposedPresentation.pdf?sessionid=2f1c4d2cc9cd6b8e6ce1c987c925138d
(page 10 of presentation)
February 22, 2011 at 11:58 am
Obama’s Sec of Ed suggests scrapping Detroit’s elected school board.
http://detnews.com/article/20110221/SCHOOLS/102210336
February 22, 2011 at 12:09 pm
PWC comparison chart. Too bad they didn’t also have Manassas Park, but thanks to PWC for providing basic info for citizens to make a more informed assessment of their school system’s functioning.
February 22, 2011 at 2:21 pm
Is there a private school in PWC that is not faith-related?
I checked the tuition for a few private schools in Fauquier and Fairfax – more than twice the cost of public school.
February 22, 2011 at 4:41 pm
Cindy, PWC Schools took that slide from the Washington Area Boards of Education presentation. The whole packet makes for interesting reading. The one for the current school year is posted on MCPS site at:
http://manassascity.va.schoolwebpages.com/education/page/download.php?fileinfo=RlkyMDExV0FCRS1maW5hbC5wZGY6Ojovd3d3NS9zY2hvb2xzL3ZhL21hbmFzc2FzY2l0eS9pbWFnZXMvZG9jbWdyLzEyNjVmaWxlNzQzNC5wZGY=
February 22, 2011 at 4:42 pm
and do ya think MCPS could have made a longer weblink???? 🙂
February 22, 2011 at 5:09 pm
Most private schools are by a long ways, much better than most public schools. And, there is nothing wrong with learning about God, while getting a better education.
February 22, 2011 at 5:47 pm
Here is the data from the website Mr. Beveridge mentioned. I’ve added the %’s to give a sense of proportion.
School Division Operating % Construction % Debt % Food % Governmental TOTAL
Fund1 Operating Fund Construction Service Debt Fund Food Funds2 EXPENDITURES
Alexandria City $204,581,639 83.8% $13,164,267 5.4% $13,564,267 5.6% $6,515,431 2.7% $6,248,437 $244,074,041
Arlington County $376,173,353 80.0% $32,875,398 7.0% $36,139,100 7.7% $6,641,223 1.4% $18,434,336 $470,263,410
Fairfax County $2,182,863,018 82.8% $165,582,149 6.3% $164,047,749 6.2% $83,017,202 3.1% $40,007,765 $2,635,517,883
Falls Church City $34,627,190 89.8% $10,000 0.0% $1,118,307 2.9% $934,500 2.4% $1,861,400 $38,551,397
Loudoun County $708,142,390 80.2% $27,820,000 3.2% $120,648,084 13.7% $24,034,272 2.7% $2,203,272 $882,848,018
Manassas City $79,654,901 88.9% $940,000 1.0% $5,671,253 6.3% $2,775,737 3.1% $594,589 $89,636,480
Prince George’s County $1,633,526,541 89.1% $76,604,000 4.2% $53,899,512 2.9% $68,649,678 3.7% $0 $1,832,679,731
Prince William County $760,300,629 72.3% $88,455,000 8.4% $58,127,770 5.5% $32,463,820 3.1% $112,363,709 $1,051,710,928
While I can have plenty of negative things to say about MCPS, compared to the peers listed, our schools seem to efficiently spend our tax dollars. Compare the % for Operations to the same in PWC. Or look at rthe debt service in Loudon. That is a disaster in the making.
February 22, 2011 at 5:58 pm
@Disappointed
“our schools seem to efficiently spend our tax dollars.”
That is really a stretch given the variables that one would have to examine in those districts and categories.
Not to mention one would think efficiency is tied to the quality of the students coming out of the system.
February 22, 2011 at 6:30 pm
Good points, Citizen.
February 22, 2011 at 9:45 pm
Private schools typically choose the students they wish to take. So if a child has learning differences or is autistic, good luck getting help at a private school. By contrast, public schools are expected to stand ready and serve the public. They pretty much cannot pick who they want and who they don’t. This results in costs that most private schools just don’t have to deal with. No doubt there may be exceptions but it’s generally true.
February 22, 2011 at 11:18 pm
Not that talking about the school system isn’t interesting….
So, Andy, anything in the budget this year for opening the Lake?
February 23, 2011 at 1:55 am
@David B
David, Sunday’s WaPo Prince William Extra (Feb 20) had the front article “Lake Manassas suit heads to trial”. Ruling to send to trial was made Wednesday, Feb 15.
Looks like opening may be a bit longer…
February 23, 2011 at 7:24 am
Ray is correct. That’s in court so I’m not going to say much there….
February 23, 2011 at 7:59 am
Rich,
That’s not always the case. Private schools do accept students who have learning issues.
But, we always hear how the public schools are staffed with the very best, but it’s funny how we also hear a string of excuses why schools are failing. As we are seeing in Wisconsin, the liberal brain washers are not concerned with students, they are concerned with their greed and greed only.
February 23, 2011 at 9:27 am
Special needs children and private schools?
Doesn’t normally a city or county have a mechanism to allow private individuals or schools to tap into the federally mandated and sometime funded services that exist for special needs children? I’ve seen private schools in the area do some great work with such children in part because of the calmer and more disciplined environment.
February 23, 2011 at 9:42 am
Indeed, there are private schools just for kids who have learning issues. However, those schools also pick and choose and are usually expensive. Agree that smaller, private institutions can provide great results. However, the only institutions that have the heft to handle the number of kids who have issues are the public schools.
Take Youth for Tomorrow for instance. They are a great (!) program with rare access to funds (just completed a $13 million CIP) thanks to the leadership of Joe Gibbs and their involvement with the Redskins. They have, over the last 25 years, served 800 kids. We have more kids than that in special ed right now.
Here’s a link to the school’s Sepcial Ed update presented last night: http://manassas.k12.va.us/sb/meetings/2010-11/022211/SpEd.pdf
February 23, 2011 at 5:00 pm
@Andy
Given the issue of the increase in the Fire Levy to restore the Equip & Apparatus Fund; and given the Mayor stated a couple of months ago he is not in support of raising the levy until the FRC submits the mandated equipment review, list et. al.; and given when looking through the Minutes of FRC have not seen in the last three months any reference to the Budget Committee submitting a document – are you aware if the FRC has done the mandate?
Considering the Budget Presentation is Monday night, and then the departments and line items begin, this raises a concern since Mr. Hughes is building his prelim on the approved 5-Year which included the 2cent Fire Levy.
February 23, 2011 at 5:11 pm
Ray:
The Mayor and I disagree about the fire levy increase.
1 cent is required to balance the fire budget unless you want to layoff fire/ems staff or make other severe changes. My policy position (and mine alone – you would have to ask the Mayor what his is), as it currently stands, is that I do not want to layoff fire fighters and/or medics. I think public safety is too important and volunteerism is on the decline so we are left with a limited set of options. The other option is to continue eating into the fund balance and I don’t think that wise at all.
The other cent is to buy fire trucks, etc. You are correct that the FRC has not come up with a fleet plan. However, I do know that the cost of whatever plan they eventually come up with is going to be more than $0. Our Aerial truck, for instance, is 25 years old and a replacement is around $1,000,000. I don’t need a fleet plan to know that we’ll need money for that sooner than later and I think it best to start raising it now and not wait until the next budget. Maintenance on that beast last year was around $80k (from what I recall) so we’re close to diminishing returns….
February 23, 2011 at 5:12 pm
http://www.roanoke.com/politics/wb/277919
FYI.
February 23, 2011 at 6:11 pm
Our current school administration has proven they are not even capable of educating non special needs students. I would not trust them if I had a special needs student.
All of these budget issues could be resolved by taking money away from the school system. They are not pulling their weight and should no longer get a blank check.
February 23, 2011 at 7:34 pm
How much would you recommend taking away?
February 23, 2011 at 9:32 pm
Rich,
I think a complete review of the expenses by an independent body needs to be done to figure out were to make cuts. I do not trust the school board or for that matter anyone in the school system when it comes to costs. I simply do not believe we need 90 million dollars to educate about 7,000 students.
Though, I recommend looking at the ESL classes first, that’s where a lot of money can be saved. There was a law case that made it all the way to the Supreme Court a couple of years ago. The School District, in Arizona, won the case against parents who felt the school district did not spend enough on els students.
As it stands here in Manassas, the cost to educate an esl student is more than a non esl student. We need to get those costs down, and when you consider those students graduate at half the rate as non esl students, we are not getting anywhere near the return on costs.
I would than look at the salaries in the administration office.
February 23, 2011 at 9:48 pm
Not sure about this, but would Albert Einstein have been an esl student? Would his later contributions have been worth the effort/funding?
February 23, 2011 at 9:48 pm
You’re referring to 5-4 decision of the Supreme Court in Horne v. Flores which can be accessed here:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=10120665790996629588&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr
February 23, 2011 at 10:44 pm
I’m no lawyer but the decision in that case doesn’t appear to be quite that simple. It appears that the flaw the court found with lower decisions was that they eliminated the possibility that esl performance could improve by any avenue other than spending more on it.
In fact, a new superintendent appears to have spent marginally more money and employed different/better teaching methods (or whatever it was) to improve esl performance.
This not the same as a blanket reversal and this case was, in I read it right, sent back. The other thing they note in this decision are the multiple masters these programs must serve: EEO, NCLB and state requirements. This case seems to say you might achieve compliance by other means but the justices are pretty careful to maintain the intent behind NCLB and the various federal rules.
I aint saying you r wrong entirely or it is impossible but it would be complicated and expensive. The timeline on that case is years long….
February 23, 2011 at 10:46 pm
Einstein came to America as an adult.
February 24, 2011 at 4:47 am
@Andy
Thanks for the comments – and you already know my view on restoring the capital fund for replacement. You have heard me say I am in support of it, and I have no issue with the Fire Levy which supports our designated Fire District.
My personal hunch is the Fleet Plan is on hold until the survey report comes up from Richmond next month. And that is my nice thought about it. I am fully aware by the City Ord the three entities can submit seperate budgets for the upcoming FY vs. a unified budget, but still would be nice to have seen the FRC at least discuss each one so there is at least a common approach.
February 24, 2011 at 4:53 am
@Steve
Good article! Another case where the GA wants to push things on the local gov’t, instead of funding the entities such as Centers for Independent Living which can provide support services. Although these support entities do come to local governments and ask for funding, the primary source should be out of the GA.
February 24, 2011 at 7:14 am
@Ray,
You should have seen in those FRC minutes that the Fleet Plan got wrapped into the overall system assessment.
February 24, 2011 at 8:00 am
Andy,
I think the intent though is there. There would have been no lawsuit had the parents not felt the school system was spending enough money, and the school system would not have defended it to the Supreme Court had they not thought it could spend less. Otherwise why bring a lawsuit? But, I suppose what the heck let’s just keep pouring money into a system that does not work. I suppose when it comes to spending money of others it’s easy to not be so concerned with waste.
blackandblue
Back than kids were added to regular classes where they had to learn English sink or swim style. But Andy is right.
February 24, 2011 at 8:27 am
http://www.roanoke.com/politics/wb/278047
SB 924 – An important bill to follow today. I
February 24, 2011 at 9:27 am
COM:
I agree that the intent is there and what you suggest may be possible.
February 24, 2011 at 4:56 pm
Andy,
Thanks. You know me, like a bull in a china shop. I do not believe anyone would deny we have budget issues. So, IMHO, tough times means taking charge of the situation and if it means having to push, pull, or twist arms, then so be it. But, we need to change this whole school system funding and we need the Council to take as much charge and interest in it as possible. I realize there is the school board, but as the true and most visual political leaders of the City, you and the rest of the Council have an obligation to us to spend our money wisely.
February 25, 2011 at 6:18 pm
@David B
Thanks, Dave (as always)!!! I was looking for it in a different format given the interest in it. Found what you referred to.
February 28, 2011 at 9:38 am
http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/wb/278484
“Perfidy” is too mild a word to describe the actions
of this GA.
February 28, 2011 at 8:50 pm
More good news for the City and our school system. And, still we wait for anyone from the school board or the City Council to speak out on this issue.
So, please tell us we should just continue to sit on our hands and be quiet. Let’s just keep dumping money into the local art scene, because of course that will attract the type of families we want.
And yet the liberals on the school board still whine and scream like brats when it comes to their budget. All they care about is more money.
It’s a shame it’s not criminal to waste money like the school system does. The local jail would have a few more guests.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/27/AR2011022704821.html
February 28, 2011 at 10:28 pm
@COM
Dr. Pope, at Council session tonight, said that report was based on 2005 data. Mr. Aveni lead the charge to have her review the report, then get back to the Council with her review, plus the current info, and any recommendations.
February 28, 2011 at 11:22 pm
Raymond,
The report states the study was from spending from 2008 school year p.7
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2011/01/pdf/dwwroi.pdf
March 1, 2011 at 7:25 am
Raymond
Thanks for the information. I do not think the school budget has dropped that much since then. So we might be in the same situation.
March 1, 2011 at 9:23 am
I take exception to this report. The facts seem to be wrong. It states that Manassas has low income students at 28% were they are at 49% free and reduced lunch this year. ? The even put in the disclaimer: ‘We hope you use this site to evaluate educational productivity in your community, but ask that you interpret individual district evaluations with caution. The connection between spending and educational achievement is a complex one, and our data does not capture everything that goes into creating an effective school system. We’re also aware that some of the data reported by states and districts have reliability issues.’ Doesn’t sound like the report’s is anything we should lose our minds over.
I also don’t understand where COM has seen any official from the school system ‘whine and scream like brats’ asking for more money. I left a few years ago but still keep up via the internet and my folks still live in town and neither they nor I have never heard the superintendent or board ask council for more money. COM could you document your allegations? And not from a candidates forum, but from the current board.
March 1, 2011 at 10:51 am
@Doug
LOL! Just repeated what Dr. Pope said. I read that report too and shook my head as she was speaking thinking “if I was the Super, I would have grabbed that report macht schnell !!!”
Either way, it matches a lot of the data from the Washington Board of Education report posted on the school website, so even with two year old data, that WaPo report was spot on.